Mystery P-38

loogee · 06-30-2010, 02:43 PM

Enclosed picts of a P-38 I bought in the early 1970's, when I decided that I would start collecting P-38's. It was one of the first P-38's I bought. Have been trying since then to establish what the heck it is. It must be one-of-a-kind because over the years I've dicussed it with most of the giants in the collecting world. Most common answer received...Swiss rework. Marking looks as close to present-day Swiss, which may be the pre-war Swiss mark with an added loop...? The mark appears in 3 places: slide, under left grip panel(with the year? "44"), and on barrel block which is the lightest stamping.Gun has been refinished,with original markings faint, and "new" markings sharp.
Anyway, just thought it would make an interesting discussion.
Charlie.

Ron Smith · 06-30-2010, 04:23 PM

Charlie,

Have you posted this on the P.38 Forum?

Ron

loogee · 06-30-2010, 05:02 PM

Ron,
Tried, but my picts are too big, so "drbuster" suggested to post here...most P-38 guys also read this forum, according to him.
Charlie.

Lugerdoc · 07-01-2010, 09:08 AM

Charlie, I once had a CZ70, similarily marked. Not sure, but reputed to be South African Police markings. TH

loogee · 07-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Yikes !!
More confusion, Tom.
C U in KC ?? Was going to bring gun to show, but without knowledge of origin......
Anyway, will look into the South African connection...Thanx, Tom.
Charlie.

Lugerdoc · 07-02-2010, 08:59 AM

Charlie, I be in KC in the small "bump out" room off the front of the hall, since Chuck is using my regular wall tables for displays. Tom

drbuster · 07-03-2010, 03:06 PM

Charlie, when you first described this marking to me, it sounded like a "Bernerprobe". But after actually seeing it, it is definitely NOT a Bernerprobe. The backwards first letter should be a "B". This mark is a backwards small case "d" fused to a normal small cased "b". I have no idea what this mark means, but it is safe to say it's NOT Swiss.

sheepherder · 07-03-2010, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbuster

This mark is a backwards small case "d" fused to a normal small cased "b".

Looks from here to be a "d" fused to a "p"...

loogee · 07-07-2010, 10:12 AM

Yes... I also see it as an upper-case "p" and lower-case "d" fused with the vertical line common to both.Had sent picts to Sam Costanza a while ago and he told me that he had seen a few guns in France with similar markings, that were from the WW2 era (?).
Anyone know of a site showing firearms markings from all countries ?
Thanx again for all input....Charlie.

loogee · 07-07-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drbuster

Charlie, when you first described this marking to me, it sounded like a "Bernerprobe". But after actually seeing it, it is definitely NOT a Bernerprobe. The backwards first letter should be a "B". This mark is a backwards small case "d" fused to a normal small cased "b". I have no idea what this mark means, but it is safe to say it's NOT Swiss.

dr....
What I had postulated was that this mark was a "special" Swiss mark used pre- and during WW2. Just as most countries' markings changed after the war....the swiss added a new upper left loop.
This mystery mark is so close to the modern Swiss mark....it seems probable. Books on gunmarks -I have a few- almost always show a country's different markings from pre-war/wartime to postwar. Could it be a mark used only on foreign/captured/reworked guns...?
So this mystery will go unsolved for another 35 years...?
Thanx again for the replies. Charlie.

minigun · 07-08-2010, 09:42 PM

Okay, someone removed the "P.38" stamp from the slide. That's weird.

06-30-2010, 02:43 PM	#1
loogee User Join Date: May 2008 Location: WI Posts: 84 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mystery P-38 Enclosed picts of a P-38 I bought in the early 1970's, when I decided that I would start collecting P-38's. It was one of the first P-38's I bought. Have been trying since then to establish what the heck it is. It must be one-of-a-kind because over the years I've dicussed it with most of the giants in the collecting world. Most common answer received...Swiss rework. Marking looks as close to present-day Swiss, which may be the pre-war Swiss mark with an added loop...? The mark appears in 3 places: slide, under left grip panel(with the year? "44"), and on barrel block which is the lightest stamping.Gun has been refinished,with original markings faint, and "new" markings sharp. Anyway, just thought it would make an interesting discussion. Charlie. Attached Thumbnails

06-30-2010, 04:23 PM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Charlie, Have you posted this on the P.38 Forum? Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

07-01-2010, 09:08 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Charlie, I once had a CZ70, similarily marked. Not sure, but reputed to be South African Police markings. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

07-02-2010, 08:59 AM	#6
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Charlie, I be in KC in the small "bump out" room off the front of the hall, since Chuck is using my regular wall tables for displays. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-30-2010, 05:02 PM	#3
loogee User Join Date: May 2008 Location: WI Posts: 84 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ron, Tried, but my picts are too big, so "drbuster" suggested to post here...most P-38 guys also read this forum, according to him. Charlie.

07-01-2010, 12:12 PM	#5
loogee User Join Date: May 2008 Location: WI Posts: 84 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yikes !! More confusion, Tom. C U in KC ?? Was going to bring gun to show, but without knowledge of origin...... Anyway, will look into the South African connection...Thanx, Tom. Charlie.

07-03-2010, 03:06 PM	#7
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Charlie, when you first described this marking to me, it sounded like a "Bernerprobe". But after actually seeing it, it is definitely NOT a Bernerprobe. The backwards first letter should be a "B". This mark is a backwards small case "d" fused to a normal small cased "b". I have no idea what this mark means, but it is safe to say it's NOT Swiss.

07-07-2010, 10:12 AM	#9
loogee User Join Date: May 2008 Location: WI Posts: 84 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes... I also see it as an upper-case "p" and lower-case "d" fused with the vertical line common to both.Had sent picts to Sam Costanza a while ago and he told me that he had seen a few guns in France with similar markings, that were from the WW2 era (?). Anyone know of a site showing firearms markings from all countries ? Thanx again for all input....Charlie.

07-08-2010, 09:42 PM	#11
minigun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 424 Thanks: 15 Thanked 19 Times in 14 Posts	Okay, someone removed the "P.38" stamp from the slide. That's weird.