Remembering Brazil in WWII: S&W 1917 - Page 2

Douglas Jr. · 03-21-2010, 07:34 AM

The Brazilain Expeditionary Force won several bravery medals from US (remembering that it was attached to the 5th US Army). One Distinguished Service Cross, a. 30 Silver Stars and a. 180 Bronze Stars were awarded to Brazilian soldiers.

The 1st Fighter Group personnel received 17 Distinguished Flying Cross (US), 127 Air Medals and five Bronze Stars. In addition this unit was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation (US).

Douglas

Douglas Jr. · 02-20-2013, 10:49 AM

I know this is an old topic, but I prefer to concentrate as much information as possible in the same topic in order to make it easier for those researching our data. Besides that it is the same gun, but with an upgrade regarding its respective rig: I finally managed to get one example of each of two models that were issued to Brazilian troops right after the S&W Model 1917 revolver adoption.

At the time of the M1917 adoption by the Brazilian Army, in 1917, our field equipment had a strong influence of the British Mills field gear, using mostly canvas to built holsters, suspenders, belts and ammo pouches. So, when the revolvers were first issued to troops, a typical olive drab canvas holster came with the guns. The flap was closed by a press button with the capital letter EUB (“Estados Unidos do Brasil”, country’s official name from 1891 to 1967) and had two straps in the back to accept the belt (mine has lost of the straps though). These first holsters were extremely well built and able to endure several years of use and abuse.

Later holsters, probably made from 1945 on, were also built in canvas, but had a suspension system identical to the used by the US Armed Forces, to allow its wear in American-style belts, adopted here as a consequence of the Lend Lease Program after 1944. My impression is that such later holsters were not so sturdy, as my example seems to have shrunk. Another feature of the latter holsters is the different button on the flap, the same from the US rifle ammo belt.

The additional material seen in the pictures are the Brazilian Mauser bayonet (with canvas frog), an illustration of M1917 internal view from the Military Academy booklet and two military belts (the most faded one came with the holster and I believe it is from WWII, the other, darker, was wore by my father in 1965-66).

While common in the past, this kind of surplus material is becoming increasingly scarce and it took me two and half years to gather what you see here. But I did.

Hope you enjoy it.

Douglas Jr. · 02-20-2013, 10:51 AM

few more pictures

cake1979 · 02-20-2013, 12:38 PM

Douglas,

Amazing information on what is, unfortunately, a largely forgotten contribution to WWII. I feel like I'm pretty knowledgeable on the subject of the Second World War and a lot of this is new to me.

Beautiful firearms as well. My first handgun was a rough 1937 with checkered grips that I foolishly sold to buy text books. Stumbled across a factory-refinished 1917 with the same 1930's grips that I snapped up quickly.

alanint · 02-20-2013, 07:12 PM

The Mexicans also flew P47s in the Pacific Theater in WW2, (Esquadron 201) and were similarly equipted by the US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escuadr%C3%B3n_201

Douglas, was Brazil issued the S&W .38 Special "Victory Model" pistol as well? Perhaps the smaller holster is meant for this pistol, as canvas rarely shrinks.

goldwing · 02-20-2013, 08:57 PM

Douglas, thanks for the great info on the Brazilian forces in WW2. I am very proud of my Brazilian marked luger and would love to find a S&W so marked. IT makes it more interesting to me as I traveled quite extensively in Brazil in the 1950's and flew in and out of there during that time. Bill Hughes

Douglas Jr. · 02-21-2013, 09:16 AM

Thanks for the comments!

Alain, yes, this is a possibility. Brazilian Army bought some S&W M&P (caliber .38 SPL) but I still need to research more about them - mostly regarging the time frame, serial numbers and how many. There aren't many information about them readily availble, and it seems that not many were bought, as they are much more rarer than the M1917. They only display the Brazilian coat of arms, with no date, and I only see a couple, only in pictures.

Bill,

I can assure you that a Brazilian M1917 is mouch more easier to find than a Brazilian Luger. Go for it!

Douglas

alanint · 02-21-2013, 10:00 AM

Bill,

Thousands of Brazilian S&W 1917s were imported into the US in the 90s. I have seen both parkerized and original blued versions. An internet search on all the usual boards should turn one up.

cake1979 · 02-22-2013, 12:38 PM

Bill, I am definitely jealous that you have Brazilian Luger. Must be a beauty.

As far as the S&W's, you owe it to yourself to pick up a nice Brazilian 1917. Having had both, I still prefer the better sights on the Brazilian model. The original 1917's tiny rear notch is almost too small for my eyes and I'm only 33. May need to go find one myself after I finally score a nice Luger.

03-21-2010, 07:34 AM	#21
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	The Brazilain Expeditionary Force won several bravery medals from US (remembering that it was attached to the 5th US Army). One Distinguished Service Cross, a. 30 Silver Stars and a. 180 Bronze Stars were awarded to Brazilian soldiers. The 1st Fighter Group personnel received 17 Distinguished Flying Cross (US), 127 Air Medals and five Bronze Stars. In addition this unit was awarded the Presidential Unit Citation (US). Douglas Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

02-20-2013, 10:49 AM	#22
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	I know this is an old topic, but I prefer to concentrate as much information as possible in the same topic in order to make it easier for those researching our data. Besides that it is the same gun, but with an upgrade regarding its respective rig: I finally managed to get one example of each of two models that were issued to Brazilian troops right after the S&W Model 1917 revolver adoption. At the time of the M1917 adoption by the Brazilian Army, in 1917, our field equipment had a strong influence of the British Mills field gear, using mostly canvas to built holsters, suspenders, belts and ammo pouches. So, when the revolvers were first issued to troops, a typical olive drab canvas holster came with the guns. The flap was closed by a press button with the capital letter EUB (“Estados Unidos do Brasil”, country’s official name from 1891 to 1967) and had two straps in the back to accept the belt (mine has lost of the straps though). These first holsters were extremely well built and able to endure several years of use and abuse. Later holsters, probably made from 1945 on, were also built in canvas, but had a suspension system identical to the used by the US Armed Forces, to allow its wear in American-style belts, adopted here as a consequence of the Lend Lease Program after 1944. My impression is that such later holsters were not so sturdy, as my example seems to have shrunk. Another feature of the latter holsters is the different button on the flap, the same from the US rifle ammo belt. The additional material seen in the pictures are the Brazilian Mauser bayonet (with canvas frog), an illustration of M1917 internal view from the Military Academy booklet and two military belts (the most faded one came with the holster and I believe it is from WWII, the other, darker, was wore by my father in 1965-66). While common in the past, this kind of surplus material is becoming increasingly scarce and it took me two and half years to gather what you see here. But I did. Hope you enjoy it. Attached Thumbnails

02-20-2013, 10:51 AM	#23
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	few more pictures Attached Thumbnails

02-20-2013, 12:38 PM	#24
cake1979 New User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Beautiful Kentucky Posts: 3 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Douglas, Amazing information on what is, unfortunately, a largely forgotten contribution to WWII. I feel like I'm pretty knowledgeable on the subject of the Second World War and a lot of this is new to me. Beautiful firearms as well. My first handgun was a rough 1937 with checkered grips that I foolishly sold to buy text books. Stumbled across a factory-refinished 1917 with the same 1930's grips that I snapped up quickly.

02-20-2013, 07:12 PM	#25
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	The Mexicans also flew P47s in the Pacific Theater in WW2, (Esquadron 201) and were similarly equipted by the US. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escuadr%C3%B3n_201 Douglas, was Brazil issued the S&W .38 Special "Victory Model" pistol as well? Perhaps the smaller holster is meant for this pistol, as canvas rarely shrinks.

02-20-2013, 08:57 PM	#26
goldwing User Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Upper South Carolina Posts: 92 Thanks: 9 Thanked 13 Times in 8 Posts	Douglas, thanks for the great info on the Brazilian forces in WW2. I am very proud of my Brazilian marked luger and would love to find a S&W so marked. IT makes it more interesting to me as I traveled quite extensively in Brazil in the 1950's and flew in and out of there during that time. Bill Hughes

02-21-2013, 09:16 AM	#27
Douglas Jr. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: South America Posts: 948 Thanks: 598 Thanked 584 Times in 254 Posts	Thanks for the comments! Alain, yes, this is a possibility. Brazilian Army bought some S&W M&P (caliber .38 SPL) but I still need to research more about them - mostly regarging the time frame, serial numbers and how many. There aren't many information about them readily availble, and it seems that not many were bought, as they are much more rarer than the M1917. They only display the Brazilian coat of arms, with no date, and I only see a couple, only in pictures. Bill, I can assure you that a Brazilian M1917 is mouch more easier to find than a Brazilian Luger. Go for it! Douglas

02-21-2013, 10:00 AM	#28
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Bill, Thousands of Brazilian S&W 1917s were imported into the US in the 90s. I have seen both parkerized and original blued versions. An internet search on all the usual boards should turn one up.

02-22-2013, 12:38 PM	#29
cake1979 New User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Beautiful Kentucky Posts: 3 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bill, I am definitely jealous that you have Brazilian Luger. Must be a beauty. As far as the S&W's, you owe it to yourself to pick up a nice Brazilian 1917. Having had both, I still prefer the better sights on the Brazilian model. The original 1917's tiny rear notch is almost too small for my eyes and I'm only 33. May need to go find one myself after I finally score a nice Luger.