luger empties magazine

JustAGunNut · 12-04-2009, 05:37 PM

I am new to the forum and need some help, please. I have a 1927 commercial in 7.65. If I let the toggle snap closed, the gun fires off the magazine in full auto, without the trigger being pulled. If not for safe gun handling rules instilled in me by my father and the NRA, someone would have been hurt or worse. I haven't tried to fire it since and know it needs to go to a gunsmith, but am very curious as to the possible cause of the malfunction. Thanks.

Bob

alanint · 12-04-2009, 09:24 PM

My first impression would be to field strip the gun and completely clean it. The design simply does not allow for full auto fire unless there is debris or obstructions in the mechanism, which would create this condition.
Another option is to completely field strip and photograph all the parts in the sear/trigger assemblies so we can see if anything has been modified or tampered with....

FNorm · 12-04-2009, 09:34 PM

bob,

Look at the front end of your sear bar/lever. There should be a small, horizontal, spring loaded button there. If it's not there it will cause exactly what you described.

FN

Lugerdoc · 12-05-2009, 08:47 AM

FN, I disagree. The disconnector would have to be frozen in place to go full auto. More likely the sear is worn inside and not allowing the FP to **** on recoil. TH

Lugerdoc · 12-05-2009, 08:50 AM

Interesting anti-smut software. If I can't say c##k, how about "reset". TH

FNorm · 12-05-2009, 09:12 AM

I defer to you, Doc. You da man! Perhaps,is the distant past, someone greased the plunger, and now it's frozen in place.

I think you can't say ****, but you can say recock Lessee...

FN

JustAGunNut · 12-05-2009, 11:11 AM

Thank you for the ideas. I will disassemble, clean and photograph, per your suggestions and post the findings. Thanks, I appreciate the help.

Bob

jonnyc · 12-05-2009, 05:34 PM

My Brit friend used to shoot cockle shells with his full-auto Luger

Sir_Macadoo · 01-19-2010, 11:27 PM

I have a similar issue. Has anyone found a good way to fix this? I bought a new sear bar spring - that seemed to work for a little while. After about 5 magazines, I experienced the same problems described above. The Erfurt emptied the mag on me, and when I loaded a fresh mag and let the toggles go - it fired again. No trigger was held.

Lugerdoc · 01-20-2010, 08:40 AM

Sir Mac, Sounds like either a weak sear spring or the overlap of the sear & striker is insaficient or in need of "squaring up". TH

lugerholsterrepair · 01-20-2010, 10:46 AM

Doug..The design simply does not allow for full auto fire unless there is debris or obstructions in the mechanism, which would create this condition.

I have seen several Lugers go full auto. I have one that squirts out 3-4 rounds every once and awhile.

Bob, I have a 1927 commercial in 7.65. If I let the toggle snap closed, the gun fires off the magazine in full auto.

In this particular case I would look for a fireing pin stuck in the forward position. Some full auto's fire from an open bolt and a fixed fireing pin just as you describe. As soon as the bolt slams closed it begins to fire.

Jerry Burney

Sir_Macadoo · 01-20-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

Sir Mac, Sounds like either a weak sear spring or the overlap of the sear & striker is insaficient or in need of "squaring up". TH

Thanks for the info Tom - If you recall, a week or so ago I purchased a new sear bar spring, firing pin and extractor from you for a 1918 Erfurt that I wanted to shoot with and not destroy collector value.

Well, I detail stripped the whole thing, put in the new parts and took it to the range. After a few magazines, she spewed out three shots. I gave her a rest, and when I loaded another magazine - pulled the toggles back to chamber the first round - let the toggles snap into battery, it fired. I put it away and haven't fired it since.

Could it be that when everything got warmed up, the sear bar spring softened and didn't hold the sear bar in contact with the firing pin? I am thinking about putting a dab of JB Weld on the firing pin contact to beef it up to improve contact with the sear bar. I'd rather modify the new firing pin you sold me and not tamper with the original, numbered sear bar.

I've got experience fitting 1911s, tools and what not and feel comfortable enough with a swiss file/polishing stones - can you elaborate on 'squaring up'?

Thoughts?

tomaustin · 01-20-2010, 11:19 PM

will not have a rapid fire condition...when is clean clean, when is spring tension sufficient...how do i check the specs before firing??
thanks, tom austin

Aaron · 01-21-2010, 05:30 PM

We can all learn from this. When firing a Luger for the first time, place only one round in the magazine, point in a safe direction, then smartly chamber the round. If it goes bang, at least it didn't go full auto.

kgill · 01-21-2010, 05:45 PM

I think its good advice for any gun. It happened to me once and that was enough. I always fire 1 round for 5 diff times, then load only two for 5 times. then a full mag. But always assume the worst on any semi auto.

alamar · 01-21-2010, 08:29 PM

Does anyone else think that on one hand that this isnt a problem?

Seriously, would this be considered a slam fire and cause the round to be fired out of battery/before it is fully chambered, i.e like chambering a round in a Garand without using the enbloc. I guess what I am asking, is the only danger where all the rounds eventually end up, or are we potentially dealing with unsafe pressures which could destroy the pistol and or the hand and forehead of the shooter?

unspellable · 01-22-2010, 09:09 PM

I don't think lack of sear engagement would result in firing since the striker would travel forward with the breech block and would lack run up to the primer. On the other hand a striker stuck in the forward position would result in a protruding firing pin and could well slam fire.

Timing would be of the essence. If the action is not fully locked (every shot) you could find your toggle linkage embedded between your eyes.

12-04-2009, 05:37 PM	#1
JustAGunNut New User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	luger empties magazine I am new to the forum and need some help, please. I have a 1927 commercial in 7.65. If I let the toggle snap closed, the gun fires off the magazine in full auto, without the trigger being pulled. If not for safe gun handling rules instilled in me by my father and the NRA, someone would have been hurt or worse. I haven't tried to fire it since and know it needs to go to a gunsmith, but am very curious as to the possible cause of the malfunction. Thanks. Bob

12-04-2009, 09:34 PM	#3
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	bob, Look at the front end of your sear bar/lever. There should be a small, horizontal, spring loaded button there. If it's not there it will cause exactly what you described. FN Attached Images Last edited by FNorm; 12-04-2009 at 09:49 PM. Reason: add

12-05-2009, 08:47 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	FN, I disagree. The disconnector would have to be frozen in place to go full auto. More likely the sear is worn inside and not allowing the FP to **** on recoil. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-05-2009, 08:50 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Interesting anti-smut software. If I can't say c##k, how about "reset". TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-05-2009, 05:34 PM	#8
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	My Brit friend used to shoot cockle shells with his full-auto Luger Last edited by jonnyc; 12-05-2009 at 05:35 PM. Reason: Just checking if shellfish is acceptable.

12-04-2009, 09:24 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	My first impression would be to field strip the gun and completely clean it. The design simply does not allow for full auto fire unless there is debris or obstructions in the mechanism, which would create this condition. Another option is to completely field strip and photograph all the parts in the sear/trigger assemblies so we can see if anything has been modified or tampered with....

12-05-2009, 09:12 AM	#6
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I defer to you, Doc. You da man! Perhaps,is the distant past, someone greased the plunger, and now it's frozen in place. I think you can't say ****, but you can say recock Lessee... FN

12-05-2009, 11:11 AM	#7
JustAGunNut New User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you for the ideas. I will disassemble, clean and photograph, per your suggestions and post the findings. Thanks, I appreciate the help. Bob

01-19-2010, 11:27 PM	#9
Sir_Macadoo New User Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a similar issue. Has anyone found a good way to fix this? I bought a new sear bar spring - that seemed to work for a little while. After about 5 magazines, I experienced the same problems described above. The Erfurt emptied the mag on me, and when I loaded a fresh mag and let the toggles go - it fired again. No trigger was held.

01-20-2010, 08:40 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Sir Mac, Sounds like either a weak sear spring or the overlap of the sear & striker is insaficient or in need of "squaring up". TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-20-2010, 10:46 AM	#11
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Doug..The design simply does not allow for full auto fire unless there is debris or obstructions in the mechanism, which would create this condition. I have seen several Lugers go full auto. I have one that squirts out 3-4 rounds every once and awhile. Bob, I have a 1927 commercial in 7.65. If I let the toggle snap closed, the gun fires off the magazine in full auto. In this particular case I would look for a fireing pin stuck in the forward position. Some full auto's fire from an open bolt and a fixed fireing pin just as you describe. As soon as the bolt slams closed it begins to fire. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

01-20-2010, 11:19 PM	#13
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 522 Times in 201 Posts	the real Q is how do you know IN ADVANCE that you will not have a rapid fire condition...when is clean clean, when is spring tension sufficient...how do i check the specs before firing?? thanks, tom austin

01-21-2010, 05:30 PM	#14
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	We can all learn from this. When firing a Luger for the first time, place only one round in the magazine, point in a safe direction, then smartly chamber the round. If it goes bang, at least it didn't go full auto.

01-21-2010, 05:45 PM	#15
kgill User Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I think its good advice for any gun. It happened to me once and that was enough. I always fire 1 round for 5 diff times, then load only two for 5 times. then a full mag. But always assume the worst on any semi auto.

01-21-2010, 08:29 PM	#16
alamar User Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 79 Thanks: 7 Thanked 11 Times in 6 Posts	Does anyone else think that on one hand that this isnt a problem? Seriously, would this be considered a slam fire and cause the round to be fired out of battery/before it is fully chambered, i.e like chambering a round in a Garand without using the enbloc. I guess what I am asking, is the only danger where all the rounds eventually end up, or are we potentially dealing with unsafe pressures which could destroy the pistol and or the hand and forehead of the shooter?

01-22-2010, 09:09 PM	#17
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I don't think lack of sear engagement would result in firing since the striker would travel forward with the breech block and would lack run up to the primer. On the other hand a striker stuck in the forward position would result in a protruding firing pin and could well slam fire. Timing would be of the essence. If the action is not fully locked (every shot) you could find your toggle linkage embedded between your eyes.