Russian Lugers at Phoenix Investment Arms

[sheepherder]

Land of Borchardt has a page devoted to the Russian Lugers...Even listing verified serial numbers...

http://www.landofborchardt.com/other.html

[Imperial Arms]

Originally Posted by postino

Land of Borchardt has a page devoted to the Russian Lugers...Even listing verified serial numbers...

http://www.landofborchardt.com/other.html

Rich,

Give me a break (from LOB)! - "Even listing verified serial numbers...". Are you also going to mention that the M1900 Mexican Army contract Lugers are 'verfied'? You have obviously not carefully read my first article about the 'Russian Lugers'. I suggest you read my two articles on the same topic and gain some 'universal' knowledge before you go out to do any 'shopping' and make a serious mistake.

The web site "Land of Borchardt" should be changed to the "Land of Bull****" as a result of the many errors it contains!

Albert

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Imperial Arms

I suggest you read my two articles...

Albert -

Actually, I was just over at your site looking at your collection of Interesting Firearms (including the cased Bolo w/stock that Alvin lusts after! )...but except for a single picture of each, there is no description or story behind each example...

Do you have anecdotes about each of these??? Like many here, I enjoy the stories (or history) behind an unusual pistol...

[Imperial Arms]

Originally Posted by postino

Albert -

Actually, I was just over at your site looking at your collection of Interesting Firearms (including the cased Bolo w/stock that Alvin lusts after! )...but except for a single picture of each, there is no description or story behind each example...

Do you have anecdotes about each of these??? Like many here, I enjoy the stories (or history) behind an unusual pistol...

Hello Rich,

When I had created my web site, I did not see any reason to write a story for each item because most of the information could be found in reference books such as 'Lugers at Random'. When it comes to the more rare and expensive pistols, I just happened to notice that there was less interest in these pistols when the majority of the collectors on the forums are interested in pistols that they can afford such as military Lugers, C96 'Red Nines' and Walther PP/PPK pistols, all of which I appreciate and admire.

Some of my pistols have a very interesting background and I shall share this information if I receive a question. The web site LOB wants to 'brag' about his level of expertise and the importance of this collection, and he designed his web site around this goal. Of course, many collectors say 'Wow' when they view/visit LOB, but unfortunately, they do not know what is occurring under the 'surface' as well as not realizing that some of the rambling articles are flawed and make no sense with regards to actual historical events. One of the strategies of LOB is to apply his archive of literature to write his 'stories' and I can say with confidence that my archive is larger and more important than LOB. Furthermore, I have been able to interprete this vast amount of information better than LOB in conjunction with my fellow collectors in Europe instead of relying on a handful shady individuals.

Many collectors want to receive a continous 'rush of excitement' by discovering new information without being patient or getting involved in the quest for knowledge. They want everything served on a silverplater and that will not happen by sitting on one's rear-end, or going to gun shows to chat with beer-buddies.

You have no idea how much time I spend talking with collectors all around the world by telephone, VoIP or on forums, whereas LOB remains invisible. LOB has a 'colorful' web site, but the writer behind the web site does not impress me. In addition, dealers or collectors who endorse such people put a bad taste in my mouth because these are the people who spoil this great hobby of collecting.

Albert

[Edward Tinker]

Originally Posted by Imperial Arms

Hello Rich,

When I had created my web site, I did not see any reason to write a story for each item because most of the information could be found in reference books such as 'Lugers at Random'. ...

Albert

Folks do not make a website unless they are trying to show off their things, whether you call this bragging or not. There is no reason to have a website except to show things off or attempt to sell something.

When I see a bunch of pictures, i have no idea if the owner even owns the guns themself. (I am sure you do, but your vaugness is a bit odd about the pieces)


It doesn't hurt to be from germany to be in the area and study, but you always act as if being european gives you a better understanding of lugers by being european. That makes little sense.




Ed

PS: I did read your writings on the russian guns, but I am not convinced that russian contracts don't exist. I have always felt they were a small contract and the earliest books talk about them being a contract (but then they talk about mexican lugers too, and I don't beleive in any of them)

[Imperial Arms]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Folks do not make a website unless they are trying to show off their things, whether you call this bragging or not. There is no reason to have a website except to show things off or attempt to sell something.

When I see a bunch of pictures, i have no idea if the owner even owns the guns themself. (I am sure you do, but your vaugness is a bit odd about the pieces)

It doesn't hurt to be from germany to be in the area and study, but you always act as if being european gives you a better understanding of lugers by being european. That makes little sense.

Ed

PS: I did read your writings on the russian guns, but I am not convinced that russian contracts don't exist. I have always felt they were a small contract and the earliest books talk about them being a contract (but then they talk about mexican lugers too, and I don't beleive in any of them)

Hello Ed,

I enjoy reading web sites where I can gain some knowledge or meet new collectors. I believe that it would helpful to the collectors society if more collectors would share their collections online, whether it is on a web site, forum or image gallery. When some writers 'cross the line' without sufficient proof or evidence, then they can expect criticisms.

For example, my web site Imperial Arms is straight forward and the items in my collection are under the category 'Personal Collection'. If you need further clarification or information about any item that I display on my web site, you are welcome to contact me directly.

I have to disagree with your interpretation that my European nationality (German) has nothing to do with a better understanding about Lugers. I have learned about Lugers, Mausers and Walthers from both 'schools' (American and European), but the US tends to have a higher degree of fakes and, consequently, I have been leaning more on the European side. I wish to seize this opportunity to mention that the esteemed Ron is very knowledge about Lugers and I have even learned one or two things from him during my continuous education.

You have the freedom to believe whatever you want including whether or not there exists a 'Russian Luger'. Maybe those old phrases or words such as "The Russians are coming", 'Communists', 'the enemy', 'nuclear threat' will maintain you as a critic to support the survival of the Russian Luger, but I reckon that my theory explaining that it is another Bulgarian variation is more compelling and convincing than anything else that has been presented in the past.

Thank you for your comments.

Albert

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Imperial Arms

For example, my web site Imperial Arms is straight forward and the items in my collection are under the category 'Personal Collection'.

...???...Then the ones under the category "Interesting Firearms" on your site aren't your collection???

That is disappointing...Those are the ones I like to read about...Like how a prototype was selected (or modified for acceptance) or rejected...or even stories about how it came to be in the owner's possession (like the looting of the FN plant in Belgium)...or even personal stories...

My Godfather had a double barrel rifle/shotgun (one barrel each) and a Mauser 98K rifle that [according to him] he picked right off the assembly line when his unit overran the facility that housed them (sorry; I don't recall where) during WW II...He brought both of them home with him...Sadly, he passed on while I was serving overseas and it's unknown which son-in-law (3 daughters; all divorced) ended up with them...

It's that kind of anecdote that I enjoy reading...

[Imperial Arms]

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

PS: I did read your writings on the russian guns, but I am not convinced that russian contracts don't exist. I have always felt they were a small contract and the earliest books talk about them being a contract (but then they talk about mexican lugers too, and I don't beleive in any of them)

Hello Ted,

Let me try and 'break it down for you' with reference to my two articles which strongly discounts the 'Russian Luger' theory:

1. Anchor symbol = Navy division/organization;
2. Crossed swords symbol = Cavalry division/organization;
3. Crossed canons symbol = Artillery division division/organization;
4. Crossed rifles symbol = Infantry division/organization.

The 'M1906 Russian Luger' has 100% Bulgarian markings.

The 'Russian Luger' is in a contract pistol and was not for commercial sales. There is nothing on it which ties it directly to Russia - only confusion.

If you are saddened that the 'Russian Luger' is crumbling, I am sorry to disappoint you. Nonetheless, you can continue to be a critic and that is your choice. Until I learn or hear something which is stronger, I am sticking to the 'Bulgarian theory' which makes more sense. Explain to me your reasons why it is a 'Russian Luger' without any emotion and imagination, or making reference to 'those earliest books' - which ones and who wrote those books?

Check this out - I hope that I don't 'shot myself in my foot' by saying that the M1906 Portuguese Navy Contract Lugers were instead a Spanish contract (when I happen to have an outstanding Portuguese Royal Navy rig in my collection)!! (just kidding) Using your line of thought, why not?

Albert