"Russian Capture" P-38 ac 41

sheepherder · 10-06-2009, 02:00 PM

In another thread I mentioned buying a -

Walther AC41 P-38 cal. 9mm
Item Description:

Up for auction is a Mismatched Russian Captured Walther AC41 P-38 chambered in 9mm. This gun is in good condition with only minor wear to some of its exterior surfaces. This includes blemishing to the guns metal finishes as well wear to its bakelite grips. The guns barrel is 4" long and its bore contains minor pitting throughout the inside.

- from On Target in Kalamazoo, MI for, $400...I picked it up today...I was planning on re-barreling it with a slightly longer barrel...since the description is usually overly optimistic as to overall condition...

Boy, was I wrong...

This pistol is much nicer in person than the pics would indicate...in fact, if this is an example of the Russian hot-dip finish, I'm going to start looking for someone to do my Lugers this way...

I've attached a couple of pics...Any comments on the markings, identifying features (it is mismatched), or criticisms are most welcome...

I do regret that it has the brown Bakelite grips; I would much rather have the black ones...(hint, hint)...

There is some minor pitting on the barrel bore grooves, but the lands look good and the edges are nice and sharp...

There is some slight pitting on the forward part of the barrel, and the forward part of the slide, but none on the grip frame, and no rust evident anywhere...No signs of buffing, either...and no holster wear...

I can't quite make out the import marks...It looks like maybe "R GUNS" and underneath "CARRXX"...but I really can't make it out...Slide & barrel serial is 1856d; I can't make out the old grip frame serial under the XXX's...

Mag looks recent mfg; has what appears to be "ivd" on it; it is sheet metal bent & tack welded...

Now my dilemma...I was planning on sawing the barrel off, drilling & tapping for a new barrel, and eventually refinishing it...but it is much better than I expected, and it would be a shame to cut up a perfectly good barrel...

So I'll look for another barrel instead, and leave this one intact...

sheepherder · 10-06-2009, 02:02 PM

more pics...

sheepherder · 10-06-2009, 02:04 PM

two more...

alanint · 10-06-2009, 02:19 PM

Postino,

R Guns is in Carpentersville, Illinois, although I'm not sure how they may have abreviated this in the import stamp.

My advice would be to find a post war P1 barrel, which you could then modify to your liking and conserve the original to keep with the gun. The post war barrels are usually a drop-in fit with wartime guns

saab-bob · 10-06-2009, 03:28 PM

Get a replacement barrel from SARCO,it should be a drop in fit.

Good luck!

alanint · 10-06-2009, 03:58 PM

At $199, that's half the cost of the pistol. A P1 barrel will turn up much cheaper....

PhilOhio · 10-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Postino, I think that's a very nice wartime P-38 just as is; Walther, I believe. And the grips are just as they should be, looking good for originals.

You can get another barrel from one of the suggested suppliers and do whatever you want with it, without permanently changing this nice original gun.

There are some good things coming out of these old Soviet Bloc warehouses, and I think we have not seen the end of it.

I have a nice postwar P-1, and have had some wartime P-38s. They are O.K....maybe...but nothing special.

Be very careful about how the slide is assembled, and whether that stamped steel cover on top is any good. I have had several come apart during shooting, and with force, spraying small parts into my face, cutting my forehead, and drawing blood; could have lost an eye on one occasion. So I don't shoot my P-38 much. Again, check your gun very carefully, especially the little snap engaging parts of that top cover. It's spring steel, brittle, and you never know how many people have bent parts of it over the years, to make it fit better or something.

jonnyc · 10-06-2009, 04:35 PM

I recently got a Russian-capture Luger from Tom Heller. I really like the pistol and its history. With all the RC Lugers, Mausers, Radoms, P38s around, I consider them to be a legit collecting variation. Not to mention all the other "capture" variations from Romania, Germany, Yugoslavia, etc. I would keep it as-is, or get another drop-in barrel for weekend parties.

sheepherder · 10-06-2009, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

I would keep it as-is, or get another drop-in barrel for weekend parties.

Yeah! I'll take it to the next redneck BBQ...

sheepherder · 10-06-2009, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilOhio

Be very careful about how the slide is assembled, and whether that stamped steel cover on top is any good...

Maybe a P1 firing pin cover??? On the theory that the newer the better???

alvin · 10-06-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Yeah! I'll take it to the next redneck BBQ...

I love this picture. I've seen a few ways to use the supermarket cart, but this is the most creative one.

saab-bob · 10-06-2009, 06:30 PM

Those must be rich folks,they have the chrome plated BBQ!

cma22inc · 10-06-2009, 06:35 PM

No barrel in this kit but, worth a look for you.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/W...Part_Kits.html

sheepherder · 10-06-2009, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cma22inc

No barrel in this kit but, worth a look for you.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/W...Part_Kits.html

CheaperThanDirt has them, too...no barrel...

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/GNS065-1.html

Both have the checkered P1 grips; not the grooved P-38 grips...

cma22inc · 10-06-2009, 09:06 PM

Picky Picky Picky....

rolandtg · 10-06-2009, 11:25 PM

The magazine is jvd and is worth $50-75 by itself.

Some of those Russian "dipped" P38's do look pretty good, I have an AC41 "RC" myself, however I've found the finish isn't very durable.

PhilOhio · 10-07-2009, 11:46 AM

Postino,

You wrote, "Maybe a P1 firing pin cover??? On the theory that the newer the better???"

That's an excellent idea, but buy one which has never been installed. That way, you know the parts which hold it in place have never been bent, and re-bent, and bent again just to make sure. Age is not an issue, but the number of slide disassembly/assembly cycles and repeated bending of the part is. It's about embrittlement.

The P-38 slide design is not the problem, just the way they were maintained in field use. And with an original ex-military gun, you don't know the history.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the original German recommendation was to discard and replace the cover if the firing pin assembly had to be accessed. They are careful about such things.

10-06-2009, 02:00 PM	#1
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	"Russian Capture" P-38 ac 41 In another thread I mentioned buying a - Walther AC41 P-38 cal. 9mm Item Description: Up for auction is a Mismatched Russian Captured Walther AC41 P-38 chambered in 9mm. This gun is in good condition with only minor wear to some of its exterior surfaces. This includes blemishing to the guns metal finishes as well wear to its bakelite grips. The guns barrel is 4" long and its bore contains minor pitting throughout the inside. - from On Target in Kalamazoo, MI for, $400...I picked it up today...I was planning on re-barreling it with a slightly longer barrel...since the description is usually overly optimistic as to overall condition... Boy, was I wrong... This pistol is much nicer in person than the pics would indicate...in fact, if this is an example of the Russian hot-dip finish, I'm going to start looking for someone to do my Lugers this way... I've attached a couple of pics...Any comments on the markings, identifying features (it is mismatched), or criticisms are most welcome... I do regret that it has the brown Bakelite grips; I would much rather have the black ones...(hint, hint)... There is some minor pitting on the barrel bore grooves, but the lands look good and the edges are nice and sharp... There is some slight pitting on the forward part of the barrel, and the forward part of the slide, but none on the grip frame, and no rust evident anywhere...No signs of buffing, either...and no holster wear... I can't quite make out the import marks...It looks like maybe "R GUNS" and underneath "CARRXX"...but I really can't make it out...Slide & barrel serial is 1856d; I can't make out the old grip frame serial under the XXX's... Mag looks recent mfg; has what appears to be "ivd" on it; it is sheet metal bent & tack welded... Now my dilemma...I was planning on sawing the barrel off, drilling & tapping for a new barrel, and eventually refinishing it...but it is much better than I expected, and it would be a shame to cut up a perfectly good barrel... So I'll look for another barrel instead, and leave this one intact... Attached Thumbnails

10-06-2009, 02:02 PM	#2
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	more pics... Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

10-06-2009, 02:04 PM	#3
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	two more... Attached Thumbnails

10-06-2009, 03:28 PM	#5
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Get a replacement barrel from SARCO,it should be a drop in fit. Good luck! __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

10-06-2009, 06:30 PM	#12
saab-bob User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: So Cal Posts: 459 Thanks: 774 Thanked 143 Times in 87 Posts	Those must be rich folks,they have the chrome plated BBQ! __________________ "I think,therefore I own guns"

10-06-2009, 02:19 PM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Postino, R Guns is in Carpentersville, Illinois, although I'm not sure how they may have abreviated this in the import stamp. My advice would be to find a post war P1 barrel, which you could then modify to your liking and conserve the original to keep with the gun. The post war barrels are usually a drop-in fit with wartime guns

10-06-2009, 03:58 PM	#6
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	At $199, that's half the cost of the pistol. A P1 barrel will turn up much cheaper....

10-06-2009, 04:14 PM	#7
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Postino, I think that's a very nice wartime P-38 just as is; Walther, I believe. And the grips are just as they should be, looking good for originals. You can get another barrel from one of the suggested suppliers and do whatever you want with it, without permanently changing this nice original gun. There are some good things coming out of these old Soviet Bloc warehouses, and I think we have not seen the end of it. I have a nice postwar P-1, and have had some wartime P-38s. They are O.K....maybe...but nothing special. Be very careful about how the slide is assembled, and whether that stamped steel cover on top is any good. I have had several come apart during shooting, and with force, spraying small parts into my face, cutting my forehead, and drawing blood; could have lost an eye on one occasion. So I don't shoot my P-38 much. Again, check your gun very carefully, especially the little snap engaging parts of that top cover. It's spring steel, brittle, and you never know how many people have bent parts of it over the years, to make it fit better or something.

10-06-2009, 04:35 PM	#8
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	I recently got a Russian-capture Luger from Tom Heller. I really like the pistol and its history. With all the RC Lugers, Mausers, Radoms, P38s around, I consider them to be a legit collecting variation. Not to mention all the other "capture" variations from Romania, Germany, Yugoslavia, etc. I would keep it as-is, or get another drop-in barrel for weekend parties.

10-06-2009, 06:35 PM	#13
cma22inc User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa Bay FL Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	No barrel in this kit but, worth a look for you. http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/W...Part_Kits.html __________________ Matt A. Tampa, FL (C&R) Collector

10-06-2009, 09:06 PM	#15
cma22inc User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Tampa Bay FL Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 5 Times in 4 Posts	Picky Picky Picky.... __________________ Matt A. Tampa, FL (C&R) Collector

10-06-2009, 11:25 PM	#16
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 479 Thanks: 389 Thanked 265 Times in 114 Posts	The magazine is jvd and is worth $50-75 by itself. Some of those Russian "dipped" P38's do look pretty good, I have an AC41 "RC" myself, however I've found the finish isn't very durable.

10-07-2009, 11:46 AM	#17
PhilOhio User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Ohio Posts: 145 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 14 Posts	Postino, You wrote, "Maybe a P1 firing pin cover??? On the theory that the newer the better???" That's an excellent idea, but buy one which has never been installed. That way, you know the parts which hold it in place have never been bent, and re-bent, and bent again just to make sure. Age is not an issue, but the number of slide disassembly/assembly cycles and repeated bending of the part is. It's about embrittlement. The P-38 slide design is not the problem, just the way they were maintained in field use. And with an original ex-military gun, you don't know the history. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the original German recommendation was to discard and replace the cover if the firing pin assembly had to be accessed. They are careful about such things.