Help with Black AWM -3-11 Holster

Pistol · 08-05-2009, 02:03 PM

From Wikipedia:

Bürgermeister, in German: in Germany, Austria, and formerly in Switzerland. In Switzerland, the title was abolished mid-19th century; various current titles for roughly equivalent offices include Gemeindepräsident, Stadtpräsident, Gemeindeammann, and Stadtammann.
In history (sometimes until the beginning of the 19th c.) in many cities (such as Bremen, Hamburg, Lübeck etc.) the function of burgomaster was usually held simultaneously by three persons, serving as an executive college. One of the three being burgomaster in chief for a year (called in some cases in German: präsidierender Bürgermeister; in English: presiding burgomaster), the second being the prior burgomaster in chief, the third being the upcoming one. Präsidierender Bürgermeister is now an obsolete formulation sometimes found in historic texts.
In an important city, especially in a city state (Stadtstaat), where one of the Bürgermeister has a rank equivalent to that of a minister-president, there can be several posts called Bürgermeister in the city's executive college, justifying the use of a compound title for the actual highest Magistrate (also rendered as Lord Mayor), such as:
Regierender Bürgermeister (literally 'Governing Burgomaster' commonly translated as 'Lord Mayor') in Berlin, while in Berlin the term Bürgermeister without attribute refers to the heads of its 12 boroughs.
Erster Bürgermeister (literally 'First Burgomaster') in Hamburg
Bürgermeister und Präsident des Senats ('Burgomaster and President of the Senate') in Bremen
Oberbürgermeister ('Supreme Burgomaster') is the most common version. The Ober- (lit. upper) prefix is used in many ranking systems for the next level up including military designations. The mayors of cities, which simultaneously comprise one of Germany's 112 urban districts usually bear this title. Urban districts are comparable to independent cities in the English-speaking world. However, also the mayors of some cities, which do not comprise an urban district, but often used to comprise one until the territorial reforms in the 1970s, bear the title Oberbürgermeister.

Pistol · 08-05-2009, 02:26 PM

CHIEF EXECUTIVES
First Mayors
Erste Bürgermeister

TERM DATES Birth & Death
1838 - 1854 Jakob Bauer 1787 - 1853
1854 - 1870 Kaspar von Steinsdorf 1797 - 1879
1870 - 1887 Alois von Erhardt 1831 - 1888
1888 - 1893 Johannes von Widenmayer 1838 - 1893
1893 - 1919 Wilhelm Georg von Borscht 1857 - 1919
1919 - 1924 Eduard Schmid 1861 - 1933

1924 - 1933 Karl Scharnagl, with the honorific
title of Oberbürgermeister since 1926 1881 - 1963

Head Mayors
Oberbürgermeister

1933 - 1945 SS-Obergruppenf. Karl Fiehler 1895 - 1945

Based on these birth and death dates it could only be Karl Scharnagl or Karl Fiehler. If the man was truely a burgermeister. Or based on the previous post maybe he was a lessor vice type mayor. Karl Scharnagl was ousted by the Nazis and the high ranking Nazi Karl Fiehler took his place unitl the Americans came in late April 1945 and then Scharnagl took the office again.

Who knows. Maybe the man was lying looking for special treatment. My next research is going to focus on the two Karl's and see if and when they served in WWI. I know Fiehler served, but don't know where.

Klaus - what do you think? How can I find what regiment Karl Fiehler served in during WWI? If it was Fiehlers gun, would it have had SS and Nazi symbols?

08-05-2009, 02:26 PM	#2
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 467 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	CHIEF EXECUTIVES First Mayors Erste Bürgermeister TERM DATES Birth & Death 1838 - 1854 Jakob Bauer 1787 - 1853 1854 - 1870 Kaspar von Steinsdorf 1797 - 1879 1870 - 1887 Alois von Erhardt 1831 - 1888 1888 - 1893 Johannes von Widenmayer 1838 - 1893 1893 - 1919 Wilhelm Georg von Borscht 1857 - 1919 1919 - 1924 Eduard Schmid 1861 - 1933 1924 - 1933 Karl Scharnagl, with the honorific title of Oberbürgermeister since 1926 1881 - 1963 Head Mayors Oberbürgermeister 1933 - 1945 SS-Obergruppenf. Karl Fiehler 1895 - 1945 Based on these birth and death dates it could only be Karl Scharnagl or Karl Fiehler. If the man was truely a burgermeister. Or based on the previous post maybe he was a lessor vice type mayor. Karl Scharnagl was ousted by the Nazis and the high ranking Nazi Karl Fiehler took his place unitl the Americans came in late April 1945 and then Scharnagl took the office again. Who knows. Maybe the man was lying looking for special treatment. My next research is going to focus on the two Karl's and see if and when they served in WWI. I know Fiehler served, but don't know where. Klaus - what do you think? How can I find what regiment Karl Fiehler served in during WWI? If it was Fiehlers gun, would it have had SS and Nazi symbols? Last edited by Pistol; 08-05-2009 at 10:09 PM.

08-05-2009, 02:03 PM	#1
Pistol User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA - TN Posts: 435 Thanks: 467 Thanked 223 Times in 102 Posts	From Wikipedia: Bürgermeister, in German: in Germany, Austria, and formerly in Switzerland. In Switzerland, the title was abolished mid-19th century; various current titles for roughly equivalent offices include Gemeindepräsident, Stadtpräsident, Gemeindeammann, and Stadtammann. In history (sometimes until the beginning of the 19th c.) in many cities (such as Bremen, Hamburg, Lübeck etc.) the function of burgomaster was usually held simultaneously by three persons, serving as an executive college. One of the three being burgomaster in chief for a year (called in some cases in German: präsidierender Bürgermeister; in English: presiding burgomaster), the second being the prior burgomaster in chief, the third being the upcoming one. Präsidierender Bürgermeister is now an obsolete formulation sometimes found in historic texts. In an important city, especially in a city state (Stadtstaat), where one of the Bürgermeister has a rank equivalent to that of a minister-president, there can be several posts called Bürgermeister in the city's executive college, justifying the use of a compound title for the actual highest Magistrate (also rendered as Lord Mayor), such as: Regierender Bürgermeister (literally 'Governing Burgomaster' commonly translated as 'Lord Mayor') in Berlin, while in Berlin the term Bürgermeister without attribute refers to the heads of its 12 boroughs. Erster Bürgermeister (literally 'First Burgomaster') in Hamburg Bürgermeister und Präsident des Senats ('Burgomaster and President of the Senate') in Bremen Oberbürgermeister ('Supreme Burgomaster') is the most common version. The Ober- (lit. upper) prefix is used in many ranking systems for the next level up including military designations. The mayors of cities, which simultaneously comprise one of Germany's 112 urban districts usually bear this title. Urban districts are comparable to independent cities in the English-speaking world. However, also the mayors of some cities, which do not comprise an urban district, but often used to comprise one until the territorial reforms in the 1970s, bear the title Oberbürgermeister.