Could someone please help identify this pistol?

congaman · 07-23-2009, 11:44 AM

Hello members. I would like to thank you all in advance for any help you could give me as to the origin of this. My father-in-law brought this back from China after the war along with a samurai sword. I took it to a shop and the guy said it was probably a Chinese copy due to the crooked letters and the sloppy marks. It would be nice to know the story behind the manufacture of this and so I thought I would ask the group for help. Any assistance would be appreciated. There are 9 pics of it and I'll see if my uploading works. If not, I'll try again. Thank you, Scott

congaman · 07-23-2009, 11:49 AM

There will be a total of 9 (I hope)

congaman · 07-23-2009, 11:55 AM

Sorry the pics are too large to do them all 3 at once.

congaman · 07-23-2009, 11:56 AM

Another one.

congaman · 07-23-2009, 11:57 AM

Yes this is the last. Thanks to all of you. Scott

Vlim · 07-23-2009, 12:01 PM

Wow, nice example of a 'Khyber Pass Special'. This knock-off shows characteristics of most mid 20th century popular pistols thrown one one heap.

The lettering (with lots of spelling mistakes and some of them upside down) shows that whoever made it knew nothing about western lettering and spelling. The fake ELG Liege proof is nicely done, as is the faked FN marking.

Probably hacked and crafted out of a piece of railroad track in one of the less hospitable regions of the world. That makes it a nice relic.

congaman · 07-23-2009, 12:25 PM

Thanks Vlim...the value for us naturally is the memories of his service in the China, Burma, India theater. I would really enjoy seeing a video of these being "made". What a hoot that would be. Does anyone know if there were a lot of these made? There must be some "great ones" out there. And what is the reason for doing it at all? It seems like such a waste of time to go through all that stamping. Again, thanks for the input. Scott

alanint · 07-23-2009, 12:29 PM

Somebody handed the hacksaw gunsmith a slip of paper with "Fabrique National D'armes de Guerre, Liege, Belgique" on it, which is the rollmark for FN and these words have been haphazardly applied on this pistol along with fake Belgian proofs.
I agree that this is an example of Asian local gunmaking with elements of the P38, C96 and others incorporated into the design. It is apparently missing the takedown pin or lever.
A nice curiosity but not worth much.

alanint · 07-23-2009, 12:31 PM

oops, make that "Herztal" and not Liege

Vlim · 07-23-2009, 12:37 PM

Oh, well, it's Herstal near Liege, so both are perfectly acceptable

Ice · 07-23-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by congaman

Thanks Vlim...the value for us naturally is the memories of his service in the China, Burma, India theater. I would really enjoy seeing a video of these being "made". What a hoot that would be.

Scott, I can't guarantee that your pistol was made there but a lot of those types were hand made in Darra, Pakistan. This area is called the biggest illegal arms market in the world. The rough villagers create working firearms using the crudest methods imaginable.

You might enjoy this video about these armsmakers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbQXtm4fgjc

Charlie

congaman · 07-23-2009, 01:29 PM

Thanks for the link Charlie. It was very informative. Who knows where it was "created" but if they have been doing that for that long there is a great chance it came from there. Seems like a lot of work to me, especially just with your hands. Scott

Cristi · 08-27-2009, 02:36 PM

One similar in Zhuk's book, but "unindentified"

http://www.earmi.it/armi/atlas/284.htm

07-23-2009, 11:44 AM	#1
congaman User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Could someone please help identify this pistol? Hello members. I would like to thank you all in advance for any help you could give me as to the origin of this. My father-in-law brought this back from China after the war along with a samurai sword. I took it to a shop and the guy said it was probably a Chinese copy due to the crooked letters and the sloppy marks. It would be nice to know the story behind the manufacture of this and so I thought I would ask the group for help. Any assistance would be appreciated. There are 9 pics of it and I'll see if my uploading works. If not, I'll try again. Thank you, Scott Attached Thumbnails

07-23-2009, 11:49 AM	#2
congaman User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Additional pics. There will be a total of 9 (I hope) Attached Thumbnails

07-23-2009, 11:55 AM	#3
congaman User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	One more Sorry the pics are too large to do them all 3 at once. Attached Thumbnails

07-23-2009, 11:56 AM	#4
congaman User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Still another Another one. Attached Thumbnails

07-23-2009, 11:57 AM	#5
congaman User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Ah....the last one. Yes this is the last. Thanks to all of you. Scott

07-23-2009, 12:01 PM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Wow, nice example of a 'Khyber Pass Special'. This knock-off shows characteristics of most mid 20th century popular pistols thrown one one heap. The lettering (with lots of spelling mistakes and some of them upside down) shows that whoever made it knew nothing about western lettering and spelling. The fake ELG Liege proof is nicely done, as is the faked FN marking. Probably hacked and crafted out of a piece of railroad track in one of the less hospitable regions of the world. That makes it a nice relic.

07-23-2009, 12:25 PM	#7
congaman User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks Vlim...the value for us naturally is the memories of his service in the China, Burma, India theater. I would really enjoy seeing a video of these being "made". What a hoot that would be. Does anyone know if there were a lot of these made? There must be some "great ones" out there. And what is the reason for doing it at all? It seems like such a waste of time to go through all that stamping. Again, thanks for the input. Scott

07-23-2009, 12:29 PM	#8
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Somebody handed the hacksaw gunsmith a slip of paper with "Fabrique National D'armes de Guerre, Liege, Belgique" on it, which is the rollmark for FN and these words have been haphazardly applied on this pistol along with fake Belgian proofs. I agree that this is an example of Asian local gunmaking with elements of the P38, C96 and others incorporated into the design. It is apparently missing the takedown pin or lever. A nice curiosity but not worth much.

07-23-2009, 12:31 PM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	oops, make that "Herztal" and not Liege

07-23-2009, 12:37 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Oh, well, it's Herstal near Liege, so both are perfectly acceptable

07-23-2009, 01:29 PM	#12
congaman User Join Date: May 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for the link Charlie. It was very informative. Who knows where it was "created" but if they have been doing that for that long there is a great chance it came from there. Seems like a lot of work to me, especially just with your hands. Scott

08-27-2009, 02:36 PM	#13
Cristi User Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	One similar in Zhuk's book, but "unindentified" http://www.earmi.it/armi/atlas/284.htm