New to the Board - Trying to get some info on a Simson & Co. Luger

db13 · 07-07-2009, 09:25 PM

Hi - I'm trying to help my brother-in-law get some information on his luger. This is one of those WWII hand me downs and this is not my area of expertise. He is trying to figure out some history about this gun, what it's worth, should he use this at the range?

Any help would be great.

Sorry, it took me a bit to resize my pics.

Edward Tinker · 07-07-2009, 09:33 PM

Welcome David,

I would be glad to help you (see my signature block below).

Tell me serial number; markings on the right, any markings on the grip strap, pictures if you can provide them, and if all matching?

weimar_lugers@verizon.net

Ed

Edward Tinker · 07-07-2009, 10:01 PM

David, the first picture made me think it had been reblued, the other pictures told me no.

Its a very nice blank chamber Simson, made in about 1928 or 1929; in very nice shape. It has a police magazine in it.

Only 12,000 simson's were ever made by a jewish owned company before being taken over by the 3rd reich.

If it is all numbered, including internal parts (last two of the sn); I would not take it shooting, as it is probably worth $2,500-$3000 now and if you took it shooting and broke a numbered part, it would devalue it 2/3rds.

Ed

db13 · 07-07-2009, 10:07 PM

Thanks for the assist.

Should my brother-in-law take it to a gunsmith and have it looked over and really cleaned out. Is there anything he should do to take care of it?

db13 · 07-07-2009, 10:09 PM

Also, what do you mean by "blank chamber Simson"?

alvin · 07-07-2009, 10:14 PM

IMO, don't send it to gunsmith for cleaning. Keep it as-is. Ed wrote a book on Simson, if I remembered right, some of those have 1925 or 1926 on chamber. Those are super rare. This one is rare as well.

Edward Tinker · 07-07-2009, 10:16 PM

I'd like to know the markings on the right (such as eagle 6 (E6) E6 E6 proof eagle)

There are 3 or 4 variations (depending on how youn look at it);

1. Dated, either 1925 or 1926
2. Blank chamber (all the rest); to include Simson toggles and S toggles

Also, the stock lug picture, is that two eagle 6's or two eagle 33's?

Ed

db13 · 07-07-2009, 10:24 PM

The right side has 3 E6's and a proof eagle, then another proof eagle on the barrel. The stock lug has 2 E6's.

There do not appear to be any E33's; there are E6's stamped on pretty much every individual component.

rolandtg · 07-07-2009, 11:14 PM

Wowser! That is a real beauty!

Edward Tinker · 07-07-2009, 11:15 PM

Those markings are what I'd expect (although eagle 33's) would not be unexpected.

I have these in my data base close to his:

6402 e6 E6 E6 E6 E Simson & Co Suhl
6449 E6 E33 E6 E Simson & Co Suhl
6488 Simson & Co Suhl
6492 6492 (matching mag) Simson & Co Suhl
6542 E6 E6 E6 E Simson & Co Suhl
6601 Simson & Co Suhl

alvin · 07-08-2009, 12:04 AM

Is there an encircled "AK" under the toggle link?

alvin · 07-08-2009, 10:29 PM

I assume slience impling no.

So, what's encircled "AK"? A toggle supplier for Simson? Charging battery, will post a pix soon

Edward Tinker · 07-08-2009, 10:33 PM

Alvin, in our book we show the AK, not sure what it stands for. I assumed A Krieghoff (well I wanted to beleive that), so it must be a sub-contractor.

Ed

Vlim · 07-09-2009, 06:44 AM

Albrecht Kindt (Also known as AKAH), probably the reseller at one point in time? Just an idea.

alvin · 07-09-2009, 09:02 AM

I would still believe in manufacturing subcontrator theory. There is a reason -- there is an another stamp sitting next to encircled A.K, most likely being an inspector mark of that toggle maker.

Edward Tinker · 07-09-2009, 09:50 AM

Alvin, which serial number is this one on? (4004 I think?)

Ed

alvin · 07-09-2009, 06:45 PM

421a

Edward Tinker · 07-09-2009, 10:18 PM

ah, I know 421a

Was RW, then mine, then RW and then yours

Its a very nice one.

alvin · 07-09-2009, 10:33 PM

Yeah, the world is small. There many gun collectors, but the world is very small when we talk about a particular type of C&R

db13 · 07-11-2009, 09:12 AM

I can only find the number 5....no AK.

07-07-2009, 09:33 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	Welcome David, I would be glad to help you (see my signature block below). Tell me serial number; markings on the right, any markings on the grip strap, pictures if you can provide them, and if all matching? weimar_lugers@verizon.net Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-07-2009, 10:01 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	David, the first picture made me think it had been reblued, the other pictures told me no. Its a very nice blank chamber Simson, made in about 1928 or 1929; in very nice shape. It has a police magazine in it. Only 12,000 simson's were ever made by a jewish owned company before being taken over by the 3rd reich. If it is all numbered, including internal parts (last two of the sn); I would not take it shooting, as it is probably worth $2,500-$3000 now and if you took it shooting and broke a numbered part, it would devalue it 2/3rds. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-08-2009, 10:33 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	Alvin, in our book we show the AK, not sure what it stands for. I assumed A Krieghoff (well I wanted to beleive that), so it must be a sub-contractor. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-07-2009, 10:07 PM	#4
db13 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the assist. Should my brother-in-law take it to a gunsmith and have it looked over and really cleaned out. Is there anything he should do to take care of it?

07-07-2009, 10:09 PM	#5
db13 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Also, what do you mean by "blank chamber Simson"?

07-07-2009, 10:14 PM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	IMO, don't send it to gunsmith for cleaning. Keep it as-is. Ed wrote a book on Simson, if I remembered right, some of those have 1925 or 1926 on chamber. Those are super rare. This one is rare as well.

07-07-2009, 10:16 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	I'd like to know the markings on the right (such as eagle 6 (E6) E6 E6 proof eagle) There are 3 or 4 variations (depending on how youn look at it); 1. Dated, either 1925 or 1926 2. Blank chamber (all the rest); to include Simson toggles and S toggles Also, the stock lug picture, is that two eagle 6's or two eagle 33's? Ed

07-07-2009, 10:24 PM	#8
db13 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The right side has 3 E6's and a proof eagle, then another proof eagle on the barrel. The stock lug has 2 E6's. There do not appear to be any E33's; there are E6's stamped on pretty much every individual component.

07-07-2009, 11:14 PM	#9
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 480 Thanks: 394 Thanked 266 Times in 115 Posts	Wowser! That is a real beauty!

07-07-2009, 11:15 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	Those markings are what I'd expect (although eagle 33's) would not be unexpected. I have these in my data base close to his: 6402 e6 E6 E6 E6 E Simson & Co Suhl 6449 E6 E33 E6 E Simson & Co Suhl 6488 Simson & Co Suhl 6492 6492 (matching mag) Simson & Co Suhl 6542 E6 E6 E6 E Simson & Co Suhl 6601 Simson & Co Suhl

07-08-2009, 12:04 AM	#11
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Is there an encircled "AK" under the toggle link?

07-08-2009, 10:29 PM	#12
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I assume slience impling no. So, what's encircled "AK"? A toggle supplier for Simson? Charging battery, will post a pix soon

07-09-2009, 06:44 AM	#14
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	Albrecht Kindt (Also known as AKAH), probably the reseller at one point in time? Just an idea.

07-09-2009, 09:50 AM	#16
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	Alvin, which serial number is this one on? (4004 I think?) Ed

07-09-2009, 06:45 PM	#17
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	421a

07-09-2009, 10:18 PM	#18
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,974 Thanks: 2,072 Thanked 4,608 Times in 2,123 Posts	ah, I know 421a Was RW, then mine, then RW and then yours Its a very nice one.

07-09-2009, 10:33 PM	#19
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Yeah, the world is small. There many gun collectors, but the world is very small when we talk about a particular type of C&R

07-11-2009, 09:12 AM	#20
db13 User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I can only find the number 5....no AK.