Double dated p-08

GO!CHARGERS · 06-19-2009, 07:51 PM

I have a double dated P08 (1916,1920) serial #2396 R but has a WWII BYF 37 marked toggle link that must have been replaced during the war. My question is since the original toggle link which the manufacturer placed their logo on has been replaced how do I determine the manufacturer of my pistol?
Thanks, Rich

sheepherder · 06-19-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO!CHARGERS

...how do I determine the manufacturer of my pistol?

By posting pics...Of all serial #'s everywhere...Under the grips...Front sight...Under barrel/front frame...Side views...Breech block...etc...

I won't know what it is...but the rest here are addicted to pics...good res pics...Someone will look and tell you to post...more pics...

Edward Tinker · 06-19-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GO!CHARGERS

I have a double dated P08 (1916,1920) serial #2396 R but has a WWII BYF 37 marked toggle link that must have been replaced during the war. My question is since the original toggle link which the manufacturer placed their logo on has been replaced how do I determine the manufacturer of my pistol?
Thanks, Rich

A 1916 is either made by Erfurt or DWM.

Proof and acceptance markings would easily reveal this.

The byf toggle was likely not replaced during the war...

GO!CHARGERS · 06-19-2009, 10:05 PM

O.K., Here's photos of the markings on my P08. I hope this helps.
Rich

GO!CHARGERS · 06-19-2009, 10:32 PM

Some additional pics.

tomaustin · 06-19-2009, 11:30 PM

..

Ron Wood · 06-19-2009, 11:31 PM

Thanks for the pics. It is/was an Erfurt.

sheepherder · 06-20-2009, 12:06 AM

My DO in 328th TAS flew a BUFF in/over Nam way back when...

That 10.5 on the rear of the grip frame...Is that a unit marking??? Font/stamping looks about right for a unit...but why not on the front strap???

rolandtg · 06-20-2009, 12:22 AM

That B-52 has definitely been buffed & refinished...

sheepherder · 06-20-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rolandtg

That B-52 has definitely been buffed & refinished...

Odd that there's no WSSS guards around it...Hey, aren't cameras prohibited on the flight line???

GO!CHARGERS · 06-20-2009, 01:24 AM

That BUFF is recently out of PDM, and a good Crew Chief always has a camera at the ready! As far as the 10.5 unit marking on the back of the frame ,I don't know is it a unit marking? There is what's left of a units marking on the front of the grip frame but the majority of it is unreadable, all that I can make out is an S . . /H7
RICH

DavidJayUden · 06-20-2009, 10:03 AM

Can someone explain to me the chamfer on the top edges of the toggle, ALA Erfurt, but the BYF mfg. stamp?

Lugerdoc · 06-20-2009, 10:31 AM

The champher on the byf mid toggle link is normal for the 1941-2 period. The rear frame makings are sometimes called "rack markings", as these were more easily rear by armoury personnel when the lugers were locked in their racks. TH

A.Mifsin · 06-20-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

The champher on the byf mid toggle link is normal for the 1941-2 period. The rear frame makings are sometimes called "rack markings", as these were more easily rear by armoury personnel when the lugers were locked in their racks. TH

When you say "is normal" does it means that the 41-2 lugers could be also without the champher, or must be with the champher?
Alf.

sheepherder · 06-20-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

The champher on the byf mid toggle link is normal for the 1941-2 period...

That would seem to indicate that byf toggles would be more desirable to the unscrupulous booster crowd...the more pronounced chamfer would look less pronounced after filing/milling...and restamping...

Are there any other characteristics of the byf toggle that would identify it besides the byf stamp???

DavidJayUden · 06-20-2009, 04:10 PM

Tom:
Normal as in "sometimes", or normal as in "always"?
DJU

sheepherder · 06-21-2009, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugerdoc

The rear frame makings are sometimes called "rack markings", as these were more easily rear by armoury personnel when the lugers were locked in their racks. TH

That is plausible, as my M16 upper has a rack number. "10.5" sounds a bit odd for a rack number, but if this is indeed a rack number that was on a Luger issued to numerous personnel (Officer Of The Day perhaps) why don't we see more of them??? The front strap numbers seem much more numerous. (I could say this is the first number I've seen on the rear grip frame, but I'm sure that's obvious by now!)

The rack idea brings up another interesting question: What kind of rack would a police or guard unit have for daily issued weapons??? Anyone have any pics???

alamar · 06-21-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

"10.5" sounds a bit odd for a rack number,

Possibly Rack 10, slot 5.

Ron Smith · 06-21-2009, 12:42 PM

The 10.5 is a provisional unit mark. These were added to identify it as belonging to that unit until it was officially issued and marked to a specified company of the unit. Most likely to signify Reichswehr 10th Regiment weapon #5. The 5 is in smaller font.

Ron

sheepherder · 06-21-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

The 10.5 is a provisional unit mark. These were added to identify it as belonging to that unit until it was officially issued and marked to a specified segment of the unit. Most likely to signify Reichswehr 10th Regiment weapon #5. The 5 is in smaller font.

Ron

Would they remove the marking after it was issued??? Have you seen a goodly number marked like this???

06-19-2009, 07:51 PM	#1
GO!CHARGERS New User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Double dated p-08 I have a double dated P08 (1916,1920) serial #2396 R but has a WWII BYF 37 marked toggle link that must have been replaced during the war. My question is since the original toggle link which the manufacturer placed their logo on has been replaced how do I determine the manufacturer of my pistol? Thanks, Rich

06-19-2009, 11:30 PM	#6
tomaustin Lifer X5 Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: texas Posts: 708 Thanks: 87 Thanked 523 Times in 202 Posts	did you also buy the plane to haul around your collection??? ..

06-19-2009, 11:31 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	Thanks for the pics. It is/was an Erfurt. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-20-2009, 10:31 AM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	The champher on the byf mid toggle link is normal for the 1941-2 period. The rear frame makings are sometimes called "rack markings", as these were more easily rear by armoury personnel when the lugers were locked in their racks. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

06-21-2009, 12:42 PM	#19
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	The 10.5 is a provisional unit mark. These were added to identify it as belonging to that unit until it was officially issued and marked to a specified company of the unit. Most likely to signify Reichswehr 10th Regiment weapon #5. The 5 is in smaller font. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-20-2009, 12:06 AM	#8
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,208 Thanks: 1,425 Thanked 4,474 Times in 2,343 Posts	My DO in 328th TAS flew a BUFF in/over Nam way back when... That 10.5 on the rear of the grip frame...Is that a unit marking??? Font/stamping looks about right for a unit...but why not on the front strap???

06-20-2009, 12:22 AM	#9
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 480 Thanks: 394 Thanked 266 Times in 115 Posts	That B-52 has definitely been buffed & refinished...

06-20-2009, 01:24 AM	#11
GO!CHARGERS New User Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	That BUFF is recently out of PDM, and a good Crew Chief always has a camera at the ready! As far as the 10.5 unit marking on the back of the frame ,I don't know is it a unit marking? There is what's left of a units marking on the front of the grip frame but the majority of it is unreadable, all that I can make out is an S . . /H7 RICH

06-20-2009, 10:03 AM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Can someone explain to me the chamfer on the top edges of the toggle, ALA Erfurt, but the BYF mfg. stamp?

06-20-2009, 04:10 PM	#16
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Tom: Normal as in "sometimes", or normal as in "always"? DJU