Luger Frame - Page 2

sheepherder · 05-18-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougfw190

Here is a photo of the seam. A little blurry, I apologize.

Way too blurry to make a call...but the color is much closer to what a raw forging would look like...

John Sabato · 05-18-2009, 10:08 PM

Since this is not stainless steel, it isn't likely a Mitchell frame. The lines are too classic IMHO to be a 1970's Mauser... so I think this is either a 1940's vintage frame that was never finished, OR more likely, it may be one of the EAST GERMAN frames made in the 1950's... That would be my best speculation.

I would not even consider the finishing of this frame, because there is not an inexpensive or effective way to determine the type of steel or whether or not the correct parts have been hardened properly. It should remain as it is, a rare curiosity... It if were turned into a custom parts gun I doubt it would have any more value than it does already.

It would make a great conversation piece on your desk...

Vlim · 06-12-2009, 01:31 PM

Here's a Mauser forging that surfaced a few weeks ago. This is a postwar 1972-ish 06/73 frame in the making.

Dwight Gruber · 06-12-2009, 03:06 PM

John Sabato has made an intriguing speculation about the piece eing an unfinfished East German frame. If you can compare it to an original German Parabellum, check the size and shape of the disconnect "ears" forming the rear of the frame. The East Germans re-engineered this feature, and the "ears" are shorter, front-to-back, than the original configuration.

--Dwight

Vlim · 06-12-2009, 03:19 PM

My doubt about the first piece being an postwar Mauser one came after examining the one on my desk (note the shape of the grip edges around the bottom, these are straight on a Swiss 06/27, the MP 29/70 and 06/73 and curved on other models).

Digital calipers and a lot of good scans and photos will help to determine what it really is, it's an interesting piece, that is certain.

Dwight: had forgotten about the DDR frame ear difference. The Swiss pulled the same stunt, fiddling with the frame ear and ramp style. I'm still trying to find out why. The old design still works best (as Mauser also rediscovered in 1970).

Modification of the frame ramps and ears affects so many aspects of the design that it is not the smartest thing to do. Wish someone could do the maths for me

anyway, back to the first 'almost finished' frame:
We can say for certain, by judging the details, that it is not one of the following:
-DWM/Mauser/Krieghoff/Simson/Erfurt pre-WW2 P08.
-Mauser 29/70 or 06/73.
-Swiss 06/29.
-Merchel ME08.
-Erma LA or KGP series.
-Known P08 alarm pistol reproduction (Melcher, IWC, Record, etc..).

I'm starting to like John's DDR idea.

05-18-2009, 10:08 PM	#22
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Since this is not stainless steel, it isn't likely a Mitchell frame. The lines are too classic IMHO to be a 1970's Mauser... so I think this is either a 1940's vintage frame that was never finished, OR more likely, it may be one of the EAST GERMAN frames made in the 1950's... That would be my best speculation. I would not even consider the finishing of this frame, because there is not an inexpensive or effective way to determine the type of steel or whether or not the correct parts have been hardened properly. It should remain as it is, a rare curiosity... It if were turned into a custom parts gun I doubt it would have any more value than it does already. It would make a great conversation piece on your desk... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

06-12-2009, 01:31 PM	#23
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,935 Times in 1,196 Posts	Here's a Mauser forging that surfaced a few weeks ago. This is a postwar 1972-ish 06/73 frame in the making. Attached Thumbnails

06-12-2009, 03:06 PM	#24
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,890 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,282 Times in 424 Posts	John Sabato has made an intriguing speculation about the piece eing an unfinfished East German frame. If you can compare it to an original German Parabellum, check the size and shape of the disconnect "ears" forming the rear of the frame. The East Germans re-engineered this feature, and the "ears" are shorter, front-to-back, than the original configuration. --Dwight

06-12-2009, 03:19 PM	#25
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,045 Thanks: 1,034 Thanked 3,935 Times in 1,196 Posts	My doubt about the first piece being an postwar Mauser one came after examining the one on my desk (note the shape of the grip edges around the bottom, these are straight on a Swiss 06/27, the MP 29/70 and 06/73 and curved on other models). Digital calipers and a lot of good scans and photos will help to determine what it really is, it's an interesting piece, that is certain. Dwight: had forgotten about the DDR frame ear difference. The Swiss pulled the same stunt, fiddling with the frame ear and ramp style. I'm still trying to find out why. The old design still works best (as Mauser also rediscovered in 1970). Modification of the frame ramps and ears affects so many aspects of the design that it is not the smartest thing to do. Wish someone could do the maths for me anyway, back to the first 'almost finished' frame: We can say for certain, by judging the details, that it is not one of the following: -DWM/Mauser/Krieghoff/Simson/Erfurt pre-WW2 P08. -Mauser 29/70 or 06/73. -Swiss 06/29. -Merchel ME08. -Erma LA or KGP series. -Known P08 alarm pistol reproduction (Melcher, IWC, Record, etc..). I'm starting to like John's DDR idea.