Effect of hot/Tokarev loads on Broomhandle???

[sheepherder]

I recently bought a pretty beat/parts M1896 Mauser Broomhandle, and after taking it apart, I found some odd "fixes" applied by previous owner(s)...

There is a 1/16" hole drilled into the barrel extension...

(first pic)

...And the bolt stop slot is pretty hammered...

(second pic)

...And the most confusing (and alarming), the barrel extension lug has been brazed...

(third pic)

Now, if the bolt stop slot in the barrel extension (like my pic shows) is hammered back that far (presumably by hot and/or Tokarev loads), will the lug on the bottom of the barrel extension get hammered back as well???

I have examined everything carefully, and likewise examined my M1930 which is *not* hammered, and I am pretty well convinced that the brazing was to add metal to the front of the lug where the locking block pivots...

I won't attempt to shoot it this way, and I do have another barrel extension on the way from a Forum member which is not hammered like this one. But I'm really curious as to *why* anyone would braze up the lug on the bottom...

The lockwork looks good; the grip frame is in pretty good condition; and I already have a barrel section ready to go on the newly acquired extension...

But I've never encountered this "fix" before...and the hole in the barrel extension really stumps me...

I've posted this over at 1896Forums as well; no one has any idea why the hole was drilled or the brazing applied...

Any thoughts or WAGs???

[Navy]

That thing is a virtual handgrenade and a trip to the hospital or morgue for the shooter. It needs to have the barrel shut permanently and used as a wall hanger/paperweight.
Tom A

[alvin]

When the area behind bolt stop was very distorted, operator would notice (1) the barrel could not fully return to its forward position; (2) the trigger did not work anymore. The previous owner might try to solve the problem by moving the locking lug under the receiver a little bit, but that's the hard way leading to nowhere.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

The previous owner might try to solve the problem by moving the locking lug under the receiver a little bit, but that's the hard way leading to nowhere.

It must have worked; I cleaned off quite a bit of fired powder, and there were fresh brass marks on the bolt/extractor.

I'm amazed that whoever did it actually could get in there to file down the braze...

Lockwork/hammer/safety all look very good; no excessive wear, no burrs...

Another interesting project...

[Vlim]

Looks like this one was assembled incorrectly in the past and some effort was needed to release the upside down mainspring locking lug. If that lug is put in the wrong way round, dismantling becomes impossible as the mechanism locks itself in place.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Tom_A

It needs to have the barrel shut permanently and used as a wall hanger/paperweight.

The bore is not all that bad; I think I'm going to cut if off behind the chamber, turn & thread it and see how it looks/fits in the barrel extension that is (hopefully!) on the way...Otherwise, I'll just make up another new barrel from a blank, like this one...

[Vlim]

Nice, if only someone came up with a decent fix for the bolt stop design.
I still think that the C96 bolt stop construction was developed after a heck of a late night party in one of the Oberndorf bars. And Paul Mauser should've known, he had already lost one eye during a rifle trial....

[rolandtg]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Looks like this one was assembled incorrectly in the past and some effort was needed to release the upside down mainspring locking lug. If that lug is put in the wrong way round, dismantling becomes impossible as the mechanism locks itself in place.

Wait, what?!
I don't know a lot about Mauser broomhandles but what kind of gun is designed so that improper assembly results in the weapon being permanently disabled?

How is it possible that any military in the world would accept a gun like this?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by rolandtg

Wait, what?!
I don't know a lot about Mauser broomhandles but what kind of gun is designed so that improper assembly results in the weapon being permanently disabled?

How is it possible that any military in the world would accept a gun like this?

I think Vlim is referring to the rocker coupling, which can be installed backwards and won't allow the pistol to be disassembled or shot without some serious tomfoolery...J. B. Wood came up with a tool to unlock the mainspring without drilling a hole, but the hole in this one isn't in the same place that "old timers" drilled them...

And Germany never officially adopted the M1896...

[Vlim]

It looks like something was done to the side of the frame, then filled in and filed away again?

I can imagine that someone who found himself owning a 'locked up' Mauser would try and poke around to see where to deblock it, drilling some 'inspection holes' here and there?

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

It looks like something was done to the side of the frame, then filled in and filed away again?

You mean the scratches in the milled indentation above the trigger??? I know that Keng's puts their import marking there; I'm guessing the previous owner sanded/filed it down...There's nothing on the inside to indicate drilling or filling...

[alvin]

Mauser was very sturbborn. One simple way to reduce production cost was using removable barrel, but they did not do it. Even they could enlarge that magazine well length to make a 20-shot, they did not want a removable magazine. Wouldn't making front sight adjustable good? They stucked on integral sight. They were fancy on many non-functional things: no screw, fancy gun blue, etc. German products.

[Vlim]

Alvin, yes. The broomhandle started resembling a real pistol when August Weiss became responsible for pistol production supervision

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Nice, if only someone came up with a decent fix for the bolt stop design...

I'm told that "The Broom Closet" down in Florida repairs the bolt stop slot deformation by inserting a mandrel in the extension and then just pounding the rear section back into place... I suppose the idea is to preserve the heat treatment without heating, hardening, annealing, & re-bluing the barrel extension...

[alvin]

I am lost. Originally, I thought you would DIY fix problems. There are some fun in the process. If you have others fixing it, where is the fun?

[Sieger]

Originally Posted by Vlim

Nice, if only someone came up with a decent fix for the bolt stop design.
I still think that the C96 bolt stop construction was developed after a heck of a late night party in one of the Oberndorf bars. And Paul Mauser should've known, he had already lost one eye during a rifle trial....

Vlim:

Ha!!! I totally agree.

The same guy that designed this part, also designed the middle band retaining system for Mauser's Model 71/84 rifle. This retaining system isn't even functional, yet, the rest of the rifle is of almost space age design, considering the times.

Sieger

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by alvin

I am lost. Originally, I thought you would DIY fix problems. There are some fun in the process. If you have others fixing it, where is the fun?

I am DIY this C96 myself. I am just not going to try to salvage this barrel extension (except for 5 1/2" of the barrel). I have another barrel extension with poor barrel/bore being sent to me by another Forum member. I will chop, counterbore, and tap the "new" extension, and turn, thread and install the "old" barrel into it. At least, that is Plan A...

Plan B would be to turn, thread, taper, and mill a new barrel w/sight from a rifled blank and install into the "new" extension.

I mention "The Broom Closet" and their work because there are some who prefer all matching numbers, matching finishes, original bore and/or caliber...and who would pay to have original parts repaired. I don't care about all that. I'll work with what I have or can get, and if I can't get it, I'll make it. (See my artillery barrel thread for further examples of this approach).

BUT...My original question here was whether anyone knew if an elongated bolt stop slot (from hot loads) would also allow the barrel extension lug to deform...and if that is why the lug on this C96 has been brazed...

It's always nice to know why something went wrong...

[rolandtg]

Originally Posted by postino

I think Vlim is referring to the rocker coupling, which can be installed backwards and won't allow the pistol to be disassembled or shot without some serious tomfoolery...J. B. Wood came up with a tool to unlock the mainspring without drilling a hole, but the hole in this one isn't in the same place that "old timers" drilled them...

And Germany never officially adopted the M1896...

Yes, I know the Germans didn't adopt the M1896.
But other armies used it and many civilians.

I just didn't know that about these guns and I find it amazing that Mauser didn't change the design at some point to fix this.

It's one thing to assemble a handgun incorrectly and have it not work.
It's another thing to assemble a handgun incorrectly and have it be seriously disabled.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by rolandtg

It's another thing to assemble a handgun incorrectly and have it be seriously disabled.

It would definitely ruin my day...

[alvin]

Originally Posted by rolandtg

I just didn't know that about these guns and I find it amazing that Mauser didn't change the design at some point to fix this.

This problem is not as big as it sounds, because it's not part of field striping. Detail striping needs some attention.... I had a Ruger Security Six, I disassembled everything without taking pictures nor writing down notes at each step, and I could not put it back. A little bit embarrassing.

If Mauser had made the axis of the coupling asymetrical, the problem would have been gone. Simple enough but they did not do it. Maybe they did not notice this issue.