Ehrfurt Lugers

12-03-2001, 11:11 PM

According to what I've read by Ian Hogg, the Ehrfurt Armory stopped production of Lugers in 1919. Is this correct? Can anyone confirm this? Thanks. J.X.

John Sabato · 12-03-2001, 11:19 PM

Since you posted twice you may be under the impression that this is a chat board, but really it is a discussion forum...

Someone who has the proper reference books will see your post and answer sometime in the next day. Many times in just minutes or hours, but it can take also take a while depending on who is watching when you post.

I think your assumption is correct, but I don't have any reference books with me... watch for a reply from one of the others.

regards, JS

12-03-2001, 11:37 PM

I don't know the exact month that Erfurt stopped making parts and /or assembeling Lugers (I doubt that anyone really does)but I would guess it was around Nov/Dec.1918. At any rate to my knowledge the latest chamber date known on an Erfurt is 1918. This of course does not include the 1920 date found on some as a double date, but the 1920 was even then not actually a date but rather a property stamp.

Lonnie Zimmerman · 12-03-2001, 11:39 PM

Joe; the war ended in November, 1918 and I have never seen or heard of a 1919 Erfurt, or a DWM, for that matter.

Lonnie

12-04-2001, 01:07 AM

Gentlemen:

Thank you for the welcome aboards and the rapid response! I do have in my possession an all-matching parts Luger with the Erfurt Armory Crown on the forward link of the toggle joint and a DATE (not stamped/overed) of 1920 on the top of the receiver. It has seen what appears to be extensive use and I myself have put 50 rounds thru her and she shoots "like pointing your finger"! Could this be a "police" issue? Is it for real? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again,Guys!

Joe X.

(Sorry about the duplication of my first message.Pure eagerness on my part)

Johnny Peppers · 12-04-2001, 10:45 AM

Joe X,

If your Luger is all matching, it is a forced match. 1918 is the last year for an Erfurt, and probably what you have is a pistol made up on a commercial DWM receiver dated 1920. In 1920 and 1921 DWM made commercial pistols in the ns, a, and b suffix block.

12-04-2001, 11:04 AM

I too think that you should look at the numbers carefully to ensure that they match and are period. The term "forced match" like "dip blue" is often mis-used IMO. A German Arsenal (like the "MA" lugers) or factory rebuild is hardly a forced match even though it may have re-numbered parts. These pistols were gaged and fitted as well as when first made...maybe better. It is well documented in Datig (I believe, maybe Kenyon...it's been about 30 years) that some WWI dated Lugers had the original dates ground (factory or arsenal?) and 1920 applied. As Johnny mentioned, check you Luger for Police features like sear and mag safteys. My guess if it is matching is it is a Weimar era authorized rework...in my book a very legit variation for a collection.

Johnny Peppers · 12-04-2001, 05:51 PM

If DWM had gone to the trouble to grind the original date and restamp the receiver they sure wouldn't have left Erfurt on the toggle. At any rate, it is not a 1920 Erfurt.

12-04-2001, 07:20 PM

I now recall that no examples of Erfurt marked Lugers had turned up with the ground receivers and restamped 1920 dates. On another tangent, it has seemed to me over the years that Erfurts in general and post WWI retained (ie with various Weimar and Nazi era mods and proofs) in particular are quite a bit less represented in the market place than their estimated production numbers should allow. It seems to me that I see 10 DWM's from WWI military origin for every Erfurt I encounter....when in fact their total production between 1911 and 1918 was much closer to the same figure (maybe DWM doubled Erfurt production). I wonder if Erfurts were singled out for scraping by the Reichwher at a much higher rate than the DWM's?

Marvin · 12-05-2001, 08:07 AM

BCC,

You made a good point on the number of DWM on the market compared to the Erfurt Lugers; I see the same as you. But, usually the Erfurt will not bring as goodof a price for a comparable DWM. The Erfurts are a little rougher than the DWM, but I like them! The variations in metal prep. and the RC stamp on some parts is the real intresting part of the Erfurt. One of these days I would like to get an early Erfurt to compare with the WWI era pistols to see the difference in quality of finish

Marvin

12-03-2001, 11:11 PM	#1
Joe X. Guest Posts: n/a	Ehrfurt Lugers According to what I've read by Ian Hogg, the Ehrfurt Armory stopped production of Lugers in 1919. Is this correct? Can anyone confirm this? Thanks. J.X.

12-03-2001, 11:19 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Welcome Joe X. Since you posted twice you may be under the impression that this is a chat board, but really it is a discussion forum... Someone who has the proper reference books will see your post and answer sometime in the next day. Many times in just minutes or hours, but it can take also take a while depending on who is watching when you post. I think your assumption is correct, but I don't have any reference books with me... watch for a reply from one of the others. regards, JS

12-03-2001, 11:37 PM	#3
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Welcome Joe X. I don't know the exact month that Erfurt stopped making parts and /or assembeling Lugers (I doubt that anyone really does)but I would guess it was around Nov/Dec.1918. At any rate to my knowledge the latest chamber date known on an Erfurt is 1918. This of course does not include the 1920 date found on some as a double date, but the 1920 was even then not actually a date but rather a property stamp.

12-03-2001, 11:39 PM	#4
Lonnie Zimmerman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 523 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Welcome Joe X. Joe; the war ended in November, 1918 and I have never seen or heard of a 1919 Erfurt, or a DWM, for that matter. Lonnie

12-04-2001, 01:07 AM	#5
Joe X. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Welcome Joe X. Gentlemen: Thank you for the welcome aboards and the rapid response! I do have in my possession an all-matching parts Luger with the Erfurt Armory Crown on the forward link of the toggle joint and a DATE (not stamped/overed) of 1920 on the top of the receiver. It has seen what appears to be extensive use and I myself have put 50 rounds thru her and she shoots "like pointing your finger"! Could this be a "police" issue? Is it for real? Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again,Guys! Joe X. (Sorry about the duplication of my first message.Pure eagerness on my part)

12-04-2001, 10:45 AM	#6
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Welcome Joe X. Joe X, If your Luger is all matching, it is a forced match. 1918 is the last year for an Erfurt, and probably what you have is a pistol made up on a commercial DWM receiver dated 1920. In 1920 and 1921 DWM made commercial pistols in the ns, a, and b suffix block.

12-04-2001, 11:04 AM	#7
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Re: not always I too think that you should look at the numbers carefully to ensure that they match and are period. The term "forced match" like "dip blue" is often mis-used IMO. A German Arsenal (like the "MA" lugers) or factory rebuild is hardly a forced match even though it may have re-numbered parts. These pistols were gaged and fitted as well as when first made...maybe better. It is well documented in Datig (I believe, maybe Kenyon...it's been about 30 years) that some WWI dated Lugers had the original dates ground (factory or arsenal?) and 1920 applied. As Johnny mentioned, check you Luger for Police features like sear and mag safteys. My guess if it is matching is it is a Weimar era authorized rework...in my book a very legit variation for a collection.

12-04-2001, 05:51 PM	#8
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: not always If DWM had gone to the trouble to grind the original date and restamp the receiver they sure wouldn't have left Erfurt on the toggle. At any rate, it is not a 1920 Erfurt.

12-04-2001, 07:20 PM	#9
BCC Guest Posts: n/a	Valid point I now recall that no examples of Erfurt marked Lugers had turned up with the ground receivers and restamped 1920 dates. On another tangent, it has seemed to me over the years that Erfurts in general and post WWI retained (ie with various Weimar and Nazi era mods and proofs) in particular are quite a bit less represented in the market place than their estimated production numbers should allow. It seems to me that I see 10 DWM's from WWI military origin for every Erfurt I encounter....when in fact their total production between 1911 and 1918 was much closer to the same figure (maybe DWM doubled Erfurt production). I wonder if Erfurts were singled out for scraping by the Reichwher at a much higher rate than the DWM's?

12-05-2001, 08:07 AM	#10
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Valid point BCC, You made a good point on the number of DWM on the market compared to the Erfurt Lugers; I see the same as you. But, usually the Erfurt will not bring as goodof a price for a comparable DWM. The Erfurts are a little rougher than the DWM, but I like them! The variations in metal prep. and the RC stamp on some parts is the real intresting part of the Erfurt. One of these days I would like to get an early Erfurt to compare with the WWI era pistols to see the difference in quality of finish Marvin