Any have an idea?

ss454ls61970 · 03-04-2009, 10:56 AM

Hi Great Site!!!

I have had an Erfurt Luger that has no serial number, or date stamp, or sight on the tip of the barrel (none of these things are missing it just seems the gun was manufactured that way. After searching the internet forever I have not found a single one like this. My Great Uncle on my fathers side brought it back during WW2 and I have the papers somewhere. I was hoping you can help me find out more about this gun or point me in the right direction to find out. I have no desire to sell this firearm but I would like to know whatever I can about it. I have included some pictures.
Thanks,
Mike

ss454ls61970 · 03-04-2009, 11:04 AM

here are the pics ...i hope

DavidJayUden · 03-04-2009, 11:16 AM

Mike:
Certainly interesting. I'd like some more pictures particularly under the base of the barrel showing contour and any existing #s. A turned down artillery barrel?
Let's see what the wizzards have to say about this one. Clearly out of my league.
DJU

ss454ls61970 · 03-04-2009, 11:31 AM

and all the numbers match #24 but there is nowhere on the gun with any more numbers then just #24

Ron Smith · 03-04-2009, 11:53 AM

Mike,

That is a very odd Luger. It looks as though it was possibly converted as a chamber/cartridge pressure test piece. The front of the receiver has been milled off to add the thicker chamber segment of the barrel. This would also account for the lack of a front sight, since it wouldn't be needed.

If the "bring back" document shows it as "SN 24", it would add credence.

BTW, the holster is for a Polish Radom. These are desirable by themselves. It's not uncommon to find "Bring Backs" with Radom or P.38 holsters.

Ron

ss454ls61970 · 03-04-2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Smith

Mike,

If the "bring back" document shows it as "SN 24", it would add credence.

\Ron

I have put the bring back doc in a cool dry place because it is so old and fragile and I am having trouble remembering where that is but once i find it i will be sure to look for SN 24 but i know for a fact on the doc the serial number section was blank...

policeluger · 03-04-2009, 01:44 PM

Please, what cal is this....thanks

ss454ls61970 · 03-04-2009, 01:59 PM

I belive it's a 9mm because it had 2 9mm shells in the bag it was in (green canvas) but i got rid of them 5+ years ago... I don't trust really old ammo and I haven't fired a round through it yet just in case i'm wrong plus i don't want to damage it. Even if this sounds weird I will say it...I feel that I did nothing to deserve being the first to shoot this since WWII it's to importiant to me.

i'm off now.
I just think I would like to know some more of it's story.

Edward Tinker · 03-04-2009, 02:28 PM

Take a pencil, try to drop t down the front of the barrel. If it won't go / is tight, its 30 luger (7.65mm) and if it falls down the barrel its 9mm (unless its been modifies, which is always possible, but not usual).

"Normally" you see the last 2 of the serial number, in this case the serial number IS 2 numbers so, its okay.

Very odd barrel, since it is "set back", and as someone says, it DOES look like a proof barrel.....

Ed

ss454ls61970 · 03-04-2009, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Tinker

Take a pencil, try to drop t down the front of the barrel. If it won't go / is tight, its 30 luger (7.65mm) and if it falls down the barrel its 9mm (unless its been modifies, which is always possible, but not usual).

"Normally" you see the last 2 of the serial number, in this case the serial number IS 2 numbers so, its okay.

Very odd barrel, since it is "set back", and as someone says, it DOES look like a proof barrel.....

Ed

It's a 9mm...thanks! What does proof barrel mean?

policeluger · 03-04-2009, 04:00 PM

Without a chamber casting, you can't be sure of the cal....

John Sabato · 03-05-2009, 10:01 AM

I think it is more likely that this was a damaged upper receiver that was salvaged by a resourceful gunsmith tinkerer

(no pun related to Ed)... by machining off the face of the upper and using a homemade barrel... This is not a factory modification in my opinion.

ss454ls61970 · 03-05-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Sabato

I think it is more likely that this was a damaged upper receiver that was salvaged by a resourceful gunsmith tinkerer

(no pun related to Ed)... by machining off the face of the upper and using a homemade barrel... This is not a factory modification in my opinion.

Wow! Thanks for all the replies!!!

... again Great Site!!!

There is the same #24 on this barrell and I know for a fact nothing has been modified on this gun since my great uncle got it during WW2. If it was done prior to that then why stamp it with the 24?
Also why no date stamp? Plus I don't know if the pictures show but the color dosen't differ between the barrel and the rest of the gun if it was aftermarket like you think wouldn't they have to redo the whole gun because as far as I can tell it all matches. Also kicking around your site I have noticed that the early Erfurt was notorious for bad (circle) machining around the safty but this is super smooth.

I'm sure you all know way more then I do on the subject but before I start using this for target pratice I would like to be sure...do any of the guys on this forum know somewhere I can take it near Nashville, TN to find out?
Thanks,
Mike

lugerholsterrepair · 03-05-2009, 11:28 AM

Mike, Fascinating pistol!

The holster you have for it is totally wrong. As Ron says it's for a German (Polish) Radom . The closure stid is missing from the top flap..the wire that is in there is causing damage to the underside of the holster. You may want to remove this to prevent more damage.

Also I would not put a Luger magazine into the Radom magazine holder..It will not fit & will scrape away leather.

If you want to work some sort of holster trade I am sure I could come up with a proper Luger holster for you.
Thanks, Jerry Burney

ss454ls61970 · 03-05-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Mike, Fascinating pistol!

The holster you have for it is totally wrong. As Ron says it's for a German (Polish) Radom . The closure stid is missing from the top flap..the wire that is in there is causing damage to the underside of the holster. You may want to remove this to prevent more damage.

Also I would not put a Luger magazine into the Radom magazine holder..It will not fit & will scrape away leather.

If you want to work some sort of holster trade I am sure I could come up with a proper Luger holster for you.
Thanks, Jerry Burney

Thanks,
To tell you the truth I have no idea what any of this is worth but I would be willing to trade only if it will help out your collection. I don't want to just give any part of this away to a dealer since it was no picnic on the back end for my Great Grandfather to get this, but as long as some of the guys on this forum say it's a good deal and it will help you out sure!

lugerholsterrepair · 03-05-2009, 12:07 PM

Mike, OK..Sounds good. I have a nice brown WW1 holster that will match your Erfurt nicely. I have to put on a new closure strap and polish it up a little to make it nice for you. I will work it into the next few days.
If you are agreeable to the trade send your holster to my Yuma address in the meantime and I will get your Luger holster out ASAP. It's a nice one...
Thanks, Jerry

ss454ls61970 · 03-05-2009, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Mike, OK..Sounds good. I have a nice brown WW1 holster that will match your Erfurt nicely. I have to put on a new closure strap and polish it up a little to make it nice for you. I will work it into the next few days.
If you are agreeable to the trade send your holster to my Yuma address in the meantime and I will get your Luger holster out ASAP. It's a nice one...
Thanks, Jerry

I know you are a moderator and a top poster but since I have no knowledge whatsoever is there some way for me to know that it is smart for me to do. I don't mean to be a hassell but I am just to new to all this to know what decision to make. Please to whoever reads this let me know what you all think.
Thanks,
Mike

Navy · 03-05-2009, 12:51 PM

If I were a betting man, I'd wager that this gun was done by a non-factory 'smith. All of the proof guns I have encountered (4-5 over the years) were prufung marked at the factory.

The lack of such marking is telling.

Tom A.

ss454ls61970 · 03-05-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss454ls61970

I know you are a moderator and a top poster but since I have no knowledge whatsoever is there some way for me to know that it is smart for me to do. I don't mean to be a hassell but I am just to new to all this to know what decision to make. Please to whoever reads this let me know what you all think.
Thanks,
Mike

I'm sorry to string you along but now that I look at it again the holster has sentimental value for me...I just don't think I can part with it but I do appreciate the offer.
Thanks,
Mike

lugerholsterrepair · 03-05-2009, 01:41 PM

Mike..No problem, Just thought I would try to help out a newbie.

Jerry Burney

03-04-2009, 10:56 AM	#1
ss454ls61970 User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 36 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Any have an idea? Hi Great Site!!! I have had an Erfurt Luger that has no serial number, or date stamp, or sight on the tip of the barrel (none of these things are missing it just seems the gun was manufactured that way. After searching the internet forever I have not found a single one like this. My Great Uncle on my fathers side brought it back during WW2 and I have the papers somewhere. I was hoping you can help me find out more about this gun or point me in the right direction to find out. I have no desire to sell this firearm but I would like to know whatever I can about it. I have included some pictures. Thanks, Mike

03-04-2009, 11:31 AM	#4
ss454ls61970 User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 36 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i think these are the pics you want and all the numbers match #24 but there is nowhere on the gun with any more numbers then just #24 Attached Images

03-04-2009, 11:53 AM	#5
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Mike, That is a very odd Luger. It looks as though it was possibly converted as a chamber/cartridge pressure test piece. The front of the receiver has been milled off to add the thicker chamber segment of the barrel. This would also account for the lack of a front sight, since it wouldn't be needed. If the "bring back" document shows it as "SN 24", it would add credence. BTW, the holster is for a Polish Radom. These are desirable by themselves. It's not uncommon to find "Bring Backs" with Radom or P.38 holsters. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

03-04-2009, 01:59 PM	#8
ss454ls61970 User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 36 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Cal I belive it's a 9mm because it had 2 9mm shells in the bag it was in (green canvas) but i got rid of them 5+ years ago... I don't trust really old ammo and I haven't fired a round through it yet just in case i'm wrong plus i don't want to damage it. Even if this sounds weird I will say it...I feel that I did nothing to deserve being the first to shoot this since WWII it's to importiant to me. i'm off now. I just think I would like to know some more of it's story.

03-05-2009, 10:01 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I think it is more likely that this was a damaged upper receiver that was salvaged by a resourceful gunsmith tinkerer (no pun related to Ed)... by machining off the face of the upper and using a homemade barrel... This is not a factory modification in my opinion. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-04-2009, 11:04 AM	#2
ss454ls61970 User Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 36 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	sorry new to this here are the pics ...i hope Attached Images

03-04-2009, 11:16 AM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Mike: Certainly interesting. I'd like some more pictures particularly under the base of the barrel showing contour and any existing #s. A turned down artillery barrel? Let's see what the wizzards have to say about this one. Clearly out of my league. DJU

03-04-2009, 01:44 PM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Please, what cal is this....thanks

03-04-2009, 02:28 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Take a pencil, try to drop t down the front of the barrel. If it won't go / is tight, its 30 luger (7.65mm) and if it falls down the barrel its 9mm (unless its been modifies, which is always possible, but not usual). "Normally" you see the last 2 of the serial number, in this case the serial number IS 2 numbers so, its okay. Very odd barrel, since it is "set back", and as someone says, it DOES look like a proof barrel..... Ed

03-04-2009, 04:00 PM	#11
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Without a chamber casting, you can't be sure of the cal....

03-05-2009, 11:28 AM	#14
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Mike, Fascinating pistol! The holster you have for it is totally wrong. As Ron says it's for a German (Polish) Radom . The closure stid is missing from the top flap..the wire that is in there is causing damage to the underside of the holster. You may want to remove this to prevent more damage. Also I would not put a Luger magazine into the Radom magazine holder..It will not fit & will scrape away leather. If you want to work some sort of holster trade I am sure I could come up with a proper Luger holster for you. Thanks, Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-05-2009, 12:07 PM	#16
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Mike, OK..Sounds good. I have a nice brown WW1 holster that will match your Erfurt nicely. I have to put on a new closure strap and polish it up a little to make it nice for you. I will work it into the next few days. If you are agreeable to the trade send your holster to my Yuma address in the meantime and I will get your Luger holster out ASAP. It's a nice one... Thanks, Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-05-2009, 12:51 PM	#18
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	If I were a betting man, I'd wager that this gun was done by a non-factory 'smith. All of the proof guns I have encountered (4-5 over the years) were prufung marked at the factory. The lack of such marking is telling. Tom A.

03-05-2009, 01:41 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Mike..No problem, Just thought I would try to help out a newbie. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."