Need help to identify this .22 conversion

Joe359 · 01-15-2009, 10:56 PM

Hello all,
Great forum and my first post here... I'm wondering if anyone has seen or knows anything about this .22 conversion unit. Looks like a gunsmith has soldered the .22 barrel unit inside the original luger barrel to make it a permanent conversion. What puzzles me is the HEP - NYC on the top (gunsmith? conversion unit maker?) - anyone have a clue to what that refers to? The conversion unit parts are serial numbered to themselves except the magazine which is nazi marked and serial numbered to another gun. It's a great little shooter but was interested to see what I can find out about its history...

Thanks,
Joe

John Sabato · 01-16-2009, 11:18 AM

Joe, this is just "educated" speculation, but it looks to me like it is a post war Erma made .22 conversion that may have been branded to the stamp on the rear part of the toggle assembly. HEP-NYC may have been the dealer or importer.

It also looks parkerized, and not blued. Is that correct?

A very interesting collectible piece IMHO...

Joe359 · 01-17-2009, 10:35 AM

John,
Thanks very much for your thoughts on this. It's sounding like NYC is New York City so some dealer/importer that went by the initials HEP. They could have been the ones to actually do the conversion and sell the completed pistols too. I guess there was quite a market for all sorts of items 'luger' back then when they were relatively cheap. The unit is actually blued but doesn't have the same smooth finish that the luger it was built on has so there is a contrast. Same for the trigger sideplate which came from another gun. Plus the lighting I used to take the photos wasn't the best so the true colors aren't showing as well as they should - didn't really notice till you pointed it out.

Joe

John Sabato · 01-17-2009, 11:22 AM

Is the barrel soldered or cemented into the original barrel? or is the barrel really .22 caliber?

How about a good closeup photo (in focus - use macro mode) of the muzzle.

This gun should be able to be returned to 9mm with just the removal of the .22 kit and installation of a standrard toggle. Then you would have both calibers available.

MFC · 01-18-2009, 02:10 AM

Looks like it was originally a DWM Alphabet commercial... upright C/N proof, blank chamber and 3 3/4" barrel. If so, probably originally a 30 cal.

Joe359 · 01-18-2009, 07:51 PM

Added a few more photos of the muzzle and barrel. It's soldered in as you can see and the original barrel looks to have been bored out to fit the unit in. Crown/N as you said and barrel is 3-3/4". Appreciate the info on it.

Thanks,
Joe

jamese · 01-19-2009, 09:19 AM

could you provide some more photos of the conversion, it really look neat

Jim

John Sabato · 01-21-2009, 12:42 PM

The barrel is obviously soldered in place, and does not resemble the standard issue barrel. This must have been a custom gunsmith job. A Nice job. if I do say so!

skid · 06-12-2009, 12:59 AM

I was digging around for information on my "HEP-NYC" 22 conversion unit. I have one very similar to yours. I too would like to find out more about it. The serial # on mine is 63. The difference in mine is that it has a 7.5 " barrel with two spacers for using it in alternate barrel lenghts. The barrel is marked "HEP-NYC" & "22LR" as well. It also has two lock nuts & a spring steel washer for the barrel installation. The threads on the barrel are some what of a bastard size. It is 3/8 -24 NF. but the major diameter is smaller than typical @ .3463" to fit down the 9mm tube. That's about all I know of it. If anyone else has something to ad, I would appreciate it.

FNorm · 06-12-2009, 03:47 AM

I lived there far a while, and NYC is how the locals refer to Noo Yark City

Joe359 · 06-18-2009, 04:13 PM

Skid,
Very interesting.... I didn't think I would find someone with another one of these. Close in serial numbers but very different in that mine is permanently installed and yours is a separate unit that can be installed on different guns. Looks like there was an enterprising gunsmith out there - just don't know who HEP was... but makes sense he was somewhere in New York. I guess this must have been done somewhere in the 1950's or so since these lugers were plentiful and cheap back then and there was a market for this sort of thing... no one would 'convert' a collectible to a .22 much after that. Since he did serial number these it would be interesting to know how many were made.

skid · 06-20-2009, 12:22 PM

Joe359,

One thing I failed to mention is that my conversion came with a magazine which has "HEP" cast into the scallops of the aluminum base. This magazine is different from the Erma magazine in that it has a groove impressed into either side of the body to guide the cartridges & will hold 10 rounds.

Regards,

skid

01-16-2009, 11:18 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Joe, this is just "educated" speculation, but it looks to me like it is a post war Erma made .22 conversion that may have been branded to the stamp on the rear part of the toggle assembly. HEP-NYC may have been the dealer or importer. It also looks parkerized, and not blued. Is that correct? A very interesting collectible piece IMHO... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-17-2009, 11:22 AM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	Is the barrel soldered or cemented into the original barrel? or is the barrel really .22 caliber? How about a good closeup photo (in focus - use macro mode) of the muzzle. This gun should be able to be returned to 9mm with just the removal of the .22 kit and installation of a standrard toggle. Then you would have both calibers available. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-18-2009, 02:10 AM	#5
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Looks like it was originally a DWM Alphabet commercial... upright C/N proof, blank chamber and 3 3/4" barrel. If so, probably originally a 30 cal. __________________ Mike C.

01-19-2009, 09:19 AM	#7
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 792 Thanks: 0 Thanked 86 Times in 36 Posts	could you provide some more photos of the conversion, it really look neat Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

01-21-2009, 12:42 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	The barrel is obviously soldered in place, and does not resemble the standard issue barrel. This must have been a custom gunsmith job. A Nice job. if I do say so! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-17-2009, 10:35 AM	#3
Joe359 New User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, Thanks very much for your thoughts on this. It's sounding like NYC is New York City so some dealer/importer that went by the initials HEP. They could have been the ones to actually do the conversion and sell the completed pistols too. I guess there was quite a market for all sorts of items 'luger' back then when they were relatively cheap. The unit is actually blued but doesn't have the same smooth finish that the luger it was built on has so there is a contrast. Same for the trigger sideplate which came from another gun. Plus the lighting I used to take the photos wasn't the best so the true colors aren't showing as well as they should - didn't really notice till you pointed it out. Joe

06-12-2009, 12:59 AM	#9
skid User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I was digging around for information on my "HEP-NYC" 22 conversion unit. I have one very similar to yours. I too would like to find out more about it. The serial # on mine is 63. The difference in mine is that it has a 7.5 " barrel with two spacers for using it in alternate barrel lenghts. The barrel is marked "HEP-NYC" & "22LR" as well. It also has two lock nuts & a spring steel washer for the barrel installation. The threads on the barrel are some what of a bastard size. It is 3/8 -24 NF. but the major diameter is smaller than typical @ .3463" to fit down the 9mm tube. That's about all I know of it. If anyone else has something to ad, I would appreciate it.

06-12-2009, 03:47 AM	#10
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	I lived there far a while, and NYC is how the locals refer to Noo Yark City

06-18-2009, 04:13 PM	#11
Joe359 New User Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Skid, Very interesting.... I didn't think I would find someone with another one of these. Close in serial numbers but very different in that mine is permanently installed and yours is a separate unit that can be installed on different guns. Looks like there was an enterprising gunsmith out there - just don't know who HEP was... but makes sense he was somewhere in New York. I guess this must have been done somewhere in the 1950's or so since these lugers were plentiful and cheap back then and there was a market for this sort of thing... no one would 'convert' a collectible to a .22 much after that. Since he did serial number these it would be interesting to know how many were made.

06-20-2009, 12:22 PM	#12
skid User Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Joe359, One thing I failed to mention is that my conversion came with a magazine which has "HEP" cast into the scallops of the aluminum base. This magazine is different from the Erma magazine in that it has a groove impressed into either side of the body to guide the cartridges & will hold 10 rounds. Regards, skid