byf 41

K1196A · 12-29-2008, 11:00 PM

Hi - first post here so greetings to all!

I was just gifted a '41 byf P.08 from my Dad for Christmas. The pistol is 100% number matched (down to the grips). Serial is 9633u (so I'm guessing it is a late '41 gun?).

He originally received the gun from a friend of his who was with the American Field Service and attached to British 8th Army, 7th Armoured Division (Desert Rats). The pistol was captured from a German Officer during the fighting in Wadi Zem Zem south of Tripoli, on or about, January 15, 1943.

With the pistol I received 8th Army patches a period road map carried by the capturer, photocopies of book pages mentioning the man who captured the pistol, a hand written letter from a family friend of the capturer who referenced an article in the March 5, 1943 Daily Mail (mentioning the man by name), and a photocopy of said article which included a picture of the Grand Hotel (Tripoli) guest log from 1/21/43 - 1/23/44 that showed German Officers checking in on 1/21, but not checking out, and the capturer checking in on the 23rd.

Then today, we found the six original rounds (oxo '41)that were in the pistol at the time of it's capture (two were Ã¢??removedÃ¢?Â by the original owner prior to capture). The rounds are still in the "Colgate Shave Stick" can that they were put in that day.

If you experts have any estimates for insurance value it would be very appreciated. As an FYI, the small rust spots on the shown side are not present opposite.

tamueller · 12-30-2008, 02:59 AM

Hello Josh,
welcome to the forum you have a fine P08 there. Is it a matching magazine also? Nice to get information from the historical context too.

Greetings from Germany I wish you a happy new year,
Thomas

wdavid431 · 12-30-2008, 06:49 AM

Wow, just wow. A beautiful Luger and proof of history also. What a great set.

K1196A · 12-30-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tamueller

Is it a matching magazine also?

Nothing serialed on the magazine bottom, but I'm not sure if that is "correct" or not as I know that was stopped in late '41 - I'm just not sure if mine is a late '41 gun. I do know based on what I have previously read here that the magazine is in the correct range with the correct markings for this pistol (fxo - 37).

tamueller · 12-30-2008, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K1196A

Nothing serialed on the magazine bottom, but I'm not sure if that is "correct" or not as I know that was stopped in late '41 - I'm just not sure if mine is a late '41 gun. I do know based on what I have previously read here that the magazine is in the correct range with the correct markings for this pistol (fxo - 37).

Hi Josh,
as the magazines usually were'nt numbered we can assume it as matching, being at least of the correct type for your P08.
Mine is a byf 42, but it came with a mag stamped 2/1001 which was provided by the gunsmith who did the bluing job.
As it jammed sometimes I replaced it with a fxo 37, black plastic base. Works perfect now.

Thomas

Quentin · 12-30-2008, 05:08 PM

Very nice Luger!

I have a 1941 byf with a SN of 7345u. I've been told it may have been manufactured about July so no doubt yours would be slightly later, surely in the last half of 1941. Hopefully Frank or someone else can date it closer for you. Interesting that mine has the black plastic grips so ours were made in Mauser's overlapping transistion from wood to plastic.

Frank · 12-30-2008, 07:32 PM

Hi Guys with 41 byf Lugers. The U-Block is generally believed to be the end of serial numbered magazines. I have magazine data pretty well through the U-Block, but the data after this block is extremely sparce, like in nearly nonexistent. After this blank bottom aluminum and plastic fxo magazines were supplied with the pistols

U-Block Lugers were produced in the June/July 1941 timeframe, based on a uniform production schedule.

There was no transition between wood and bakelite grips. Any Luger in the U-Block (and after) might have either wood or bakelite grips. It's very difficult be more definitive since the wood grips could have been replaced by bakelite grips during WWII or afterwards. Numbered wood grips have good chance of being original, BUT these could also be replacements.

Hope this helps and doesn't provide more clouds!!

PS 2/1001 magazines are post war, but made on the same equipment as fxo magazines. They are very reliable mags.

K1196A · 12-30-2008, 08:27 PM

Thanks Frank.

I'd guess that with mine being such a late U block that it isn't at all unreasonable to think a non-serialed mag was appropriate, correct, and original to the gun

12-29-2008, 11:00 PM	#1
K1196A New User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	byf 41 Hi - first post here so greetings to all! I was just gifted a '41 byf P.08 from my Dad for Christmas. The pistol is 100% number matched (down to the grips). Serial is 9633u (so I'm guessing it is a late '41 gun?). He originally received the gun from a friend of his who was with the American Field Service and attached to British 8th Army, 7th Armoured Division (Desert Rats). The pistol was captured from a German Officer during the fighting in Wadi Zem Zem south of Tripoli, on or about, January 15, 1943. With the pistol I received 8th Army patches a period road map carried by the capturer, photocopies of book pages mentioning the man who captured the pistol, a hand written letter from a family friend of the capturer who referenced an article in the March 5, 1943 Daily Mail (mentioning the man by name), and a photocopy of said article which included a picture of the Grand Hotel (Tripoli) guest log from 1/21/43 - 1/23/44 that showed German Officers checking in on 1/21, but not checking out, and the capturer checking in on the 23rd. Then today, we found the six original rounds (oxo '41)that were in the pistol at the time of it's capture (two were Ã¢??removedÃ¢?Â by the original owner prior to capture). The rounds are still in the "Colgate Shave Stick" can that they were put in that day. If you experts have any estimates for insurance value it would be very appreciated. As an FYI, the small rust spots on the shown side are not present opposite. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by K1196A; 12-30-2008 at 08:03 AM.

12-30-2008, 06:49 AM	#3
wdavid431 User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Arkansas Posts: 135 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Wow, just wow. A beautiful Luger and proof of history also. What a great set. __________________ W David

12-30-2008, 02:59 AM	#2
tamueller User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Germany Posts: 16 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Josh, welcome to the forum you have a fine P08 there. Is it a matching magazine also? Nice to get information from the historical context too. Greetings from Germany I wish you a happy new year, Thomas

12-30-2008, 05:08 PM	#6
Quentin User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 124 Thanks: 59 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts	Very nice Luger! I have a 1941 byf with a SN of 7345u. I've been told it may have been manufactured about July so no doubt yours would be slightly later, surely in the last half of 1941. Hopefully Frank or someone else can date it closer for you. Interesting that mine has the black plastic grips so ours were made in Mauser's overlapping transistion from wood to plastic.

12-30-2008, 07:32 PM	#7
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Guys with 41 byf Lugers. The U-Block is generally believed to be the end of serial numbered magazines. I have magazine data pretty well through the U-Block, but the data after this block is extremely sparce, like in nearly nonexistent. After this blank bottom aluminum and plastic fxo magazines were supplied with the pistols U-Block Lugers were produced in the June/July 1941 timeframe, based on a uniform production schedule. There was no transition between wood and bakelite grips. Any Luger in the U-Block (and after) might have either wood or bakelite grips. It's very difficult be more definitive since the wood grips could have been replaced by bakelite grips during WWII or afterwards. Numbered wood grips have good chance of being original, BUT these could also be replacements. Hope this helps and doesn't provide more clouds!! PS 2/1001 magazines are post war, but made on the same equipment as fxo magazines. They are very reliable mags.

12-30-2008, 08:27 PM	#8
K1196A New User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 3 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Frank. I'd guess that with mine being such a late U block that it isn't at all unreasonable to think a non-serialed mag was appropriate, correct, and original to the gun