"New" Luger Issues

jonnyc · 12-07-2008, 03:32 PM

Got my first Luger yesterdy, a "shooter", just as I wanted.
The top half and side plate all match and seem to be in pretty nice shape.
The bottom half is a bit ugly, but seems solid and functional. The only number I can find on the frame is the serial, and the locking bolt doesn't match it.
The cheap, ratty, ill-fitting plastic grips gotta go REAL FAST.
I seem to be missing the "Hold-Open Latch Spring" and the "Locking Bolt Spring". I don't believe that either of these is critical to a firing test. Is that true?
The safety functions correctly, but it is a bit loose. Is there a spring in there somewhere to keep it tight, or do the grips (remember the loose-fitting grips?) keep the safety lever in-place and tight?
Where is the best place to get the two springs?
Where is the best place to get decent (read: functional and relatively inexpensive) repro wood grips?

Took it out this AM. I had four issues that need to be addressed:

1. The lanyard ring chewed my thumb up. Guess a glove will take care of that.

2. A couple of times the next round stayed down in the mag. Probably a mag issue I'll deal with after the next two.

3. The toggle stayed back almost 80-90% of the 40 shots. I'm thinking that is due to the missing Latch Spring. Must get that soon.

4. The trigger did not re-set most of the time and I had to re-**** the pistol. Anyone have a clue on this issue?

I used only Remington "Green Box" ammo today. I have read that Lugers are ammo-sensitive. Could this ammo be the cause of any of the problems above?

TIA

Lugerdoc · 12-07-2008, 04:17 PM

Jon, PM sent. I have the parts you need. You may also need a trigger job, but check the lever inside your side plate and the plunger in the trigger bar (sear) to be sure that the spring tention is good and resetting the trigger lever between shots. TH

Dwight Gruber · 12-07-2008, 04:27 PM

Johnny,

Welcome to the Forum, and congratulations on having your first Luger. Probably won't be the last...

I seem to be missing the "Hold-Open Latch Spring" and the "Locking Bolt Spring". I don't believe that either of these is critical to a firing test. Is that true?

You have already discovered the answer to the holdopen-spring question. Until you get the proper spring, you can simply remove the holdopen from the frame. You are fortunate that your takedown lever ("locking bolt") seems to be a tight fit without the spring. Very little is more annoying (or embarressing) than firing your Luger and having the sideplate fly off, particularly if it ends up in front of the firing line (providing you manage to find it at all)!

Where is the best place to get the two springs?

Lugerdoc (Tom Heller) will probably reply to this question. If you can, use original springs rather than repros, otherwise there will be a fitting issue. (Tom beat me to the punch, here...)

A couple of times the next round stayed down in the mag. Probably a mag issue I'll deal with after the next two.

This problem is an easy one: don't bother to use an original folded-steel Luger mag. Pick up a modern replacement--MecGar is my favorite--and the problem should go away.

The lanyard ring chewed my thumb up. Guess a glove will take care of that.

This should not be a problem. It is possible that you are holding your Luger too loosely ("limp-wristing") when you fire. A Luger should be held firmly, the recoil being taken up by the forearm, elbow, and shoulder rather than the wrist. Limp-wristing can cause the pistol's action to operate improperly, and exacerbate some other problems.

Where is the best place to get decent (read: functional and relatively inexpensive) repro wood grips?

There are several people here on the Forum who can probably help you out.

I used only Remington "Green Box" ammo today. I have read that Lugers are ammo-sensitive. Could this ammo be the cause of any of the problems above?

Lugers are indeed ammo sensitive--overall cartridge length is one of the major factors. In my tests I have found that modern Remington ammunition fails to feed properly most of the time. Oddly enough, your holdopen problem probably masked this by not allowing your Luger to auto-load. If you look through the "Shooting and Reloading" Forum section you will find many discussions about which ammunition operates a Luger effectively.

The trigger did not re-set most of the time and I had to re-**** the pistol. Anyone have a clue on this issue?

There are several possibilities here, not as straighforward as the solutions to your other problems. Best to solve them first and remove what variables there may be affecting this one, and then attack it directly.

--Dwight

jonnyc · 12-07-2008, 05:55 PM

Great info, guys, many thanks
Tom, I have replied to your PM.

jonnyc · 12-13-2008, 08:58 PM

1. Some fitting to the take-down lever has that working acceptably.
2. A hold-open spring, new Mecgar mag, and some wooden grips are on the way from Lugerdoc.
3. I did the tigger-lever/disconnector plunger modification I found on the site.
4. I re-fitted the safety lever pin and did the "bending" operation I also found here, that's acceptably tight now.
5. Discovered that the chromed "INTERARMS" mag that came with the pistol is actually a Mecgar.
6. I removed the hold-open pending receipt of the spring.
7. Tomorrow we're going to the range to try some WWB, Chinese 124gr., and some 1950s Canadian "CIA" mil-surp ammo.
It's been a productive week. I hope some of the work paid off and I can report some success!

Dwight Gruber · 12-14-2008, 05:14 AM

Johnny,

Be extremely careful about the Chinese ammo and the Canadian mil-surp. Unless you know for a fact otherwise, these could be +P or submachine gun ammunition. Both categories are too powerful for a Luger, and at the very least will beat one to an early death.

--Dwight

jonnyc · 12-14-2008, 09:07 AM

Understood.
Plan is two mags of each to test functioning.

Vlim · 12-14-2008, 10:49 AM

Shooting without a locking bolt spring in place will produce somewhat entertaining effects and is not recommended.

Loosing the side plate is only one part of the problem. The pistol will field strip itself during recoil, unhooking the connecting link and pushing the complete upper assembly partially from the frame. We know. We tried....

jonnyc · 12-14-2008, 11:30 AM

So far that hasn't been an issue, since the locking bolt is still VERY tight. Better fitting and a spring are in the plan.

Good news and bad news on today's range session.
1. All three types of ammo cycled perfectly. I'm very happy about this. The Canadian was most accurate.
2. Unfortunately the trigger did not re-set a single time!
I have chamfered the trigger lever and disconnector edges, perhaps not enough. The trigger lever pin is not original and there is a bit of side-to-side play. Could that also be a problem? What else can I do with the re-setting problem?
Thanks.

John Sabato · 12-14-2008, 05:35 PM

The fit of the trigger lever on the pin should not be sloppy. If you function the gun by hand, does it reset the trigger every time?

Clean and lubricate the small pin on the end of the sear bar that is spring loaded and check it for damage as this part is the disconnector.

jonnyc · 12-14-2008, 06:05 PM

John,
I would say the trigger lever is sloppy. The pin is a "Bubba Mfg. Co." product. I already PM'd Lugerdoc for a new one.

I think it does reset every time I work it by hand. What does it mean if it doesn't a few times?

I will look closely, but I'm not sure what you mean by "the small pin on the end of the sear bar". Is it at the trigger end, safety end, or middle of the sear bar?

Thanks.

Oh, do you mean the plunger that actually slides under the trigger lever?

12-07-2008, 03:32 PM	#1
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	"New" Luger Issues Got my first Luger yesterdy, a "shooter", just as I wanted. The top half and side plate all match and seem to be in pretty nice shape. The bottom half is a bit ugly, but seems solid and functional. The only number I can find on the frame is the serial, and the locking bolt doesn't match it. The cheap, ratty, ill-fitting plastic grips gotta go REAL FAST. I seem to be missing the "Hold-Open Latch Spring" and the "Locking Bolt Spring". I don't believe that either of these is critical to a firing test. Is that true? The safety functions correctly, but it is a bit loose. Is there a spring in there somewhere to keep it tight, or do the grips (remember the loose-fitting grips?) keep the safety lever in-place and tight? Where is the best place to get the two springs? Where is the best place to get decent (read: functional and relatively inexpensive) repro wood grips? Took it out this AM. I had four issues that need to be addressed: 1. The lanyard ring chewed my thumb up. Guess a glove will take care of that. 2. A couple of times the next round stayed down in the mag. Probably a mag issue I'll deal with after the next two. 3. The toggle stayed back almost 80-90% of the 40 shots. I'm thinking that is due to the missing Latch Spring. Must get that soon. 4. The trigger did not re-set most of the time and I had to re-**** the pistol. Anyone have a clue on this issue? I used only Remington "Green Box" ammo today. I have read that Lugers are ammo-sensitive. Could this ammo be the cause of any of the problems above? TIA

12-07-2008, 04:17 PM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Jon, PM sent. I have the parts you need. You may also need a trigger job, but check the lever inside your side plate and the plunger in the trigger bar (sear) to be sure that the spring tention is good and resetting the trigger lever between shots. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-14-2008, 05:35 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The fit of the trigger lever on the pin should not be sloppy. If you function the gun by hand, does it reset the trigger every time? Clean and lubricate the small pin on the end of the sear bar that is spring loaded and check it for damage as this part is the disconnector. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-14-2008, 06:05 PM	#11
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	John, I would say the trigger lever is sloppy. The pin is a "Bubba Mfg. Co." product. I already PM'd Lugerdoc for a new one. I think it does reset every time I work it by hand. What does it mean if it doesn't a few times? I will look closely, but I'm not sure what you mean by "the small pin on the end of the sear bar". Is it at the trigger end, safety end, or middle of the sear bar? Thanks. Oh, do you mean the plunger that actually slides under the trigger lever? Last edited by jonnyc; 12-15-2008 at 06:02 AM.

12-07-2008, 04:27 PM	#3
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Johnny, Welcome to the Forum, and congratulations on having your first Luger. Probably won't be the last... I seem to be missing the "Hold-Open Latch Spring" and the "Locking Bolt Spring". I don't believe that either of these is critical to a firing test. Is that true? You have already discovered the answer to the holdopen-spring question. Until you get the proper spring, you can simply remove the holdopen from the frame. You are fortunate that your takedown lever ("locking bolt") seems to be a tight fit without the spring. Very little is more annoying (or embarressing) than firing your Luger and having the sideplate fly off, particularly if it ends up in front of the firing line (providing you manage to find it at all)! Where is the best place to get the two springs? Lugerdoc (Tom Heller) will probably reply to this question. If you can, use original springs rather than repros, otherwise there will be a fitting issue. (Tom beat me to the punch, here...) A couple of times the next round stayed down in the mag. Probably a mag issue I'll deal with after the next two. This problem is an easy one: don't bother to use an original folded-steel Luger mag. Pick up a modern replacement--MecGar is my favorite--and the problem should go away. The lanyard ring chewed my thumb up. Guess a glove will take care of that. This should not be a problem. It is possible that you are holding your Luger too loosely ("limp-wristing") when you fire. A Luger should be held firmly, the recoil being taken up by the forearm, elbow, and shoulder rather than the wrist. Limp-wristing can cause the pistol's action to operate improperly, and exacerbate some other problems. Where is the best place to get decent (read: functional and relatively inexpensive) repro wood grips? There are several people here on the Forum who can probably help you out. I used only Remington "Green Box" ammo today. I have read that Lugers are ammo-sensitive. Could this ammo be the cause of any of the problems above? Lugers are indeed ammo sensitive--overall cartridge length is one of the major factors. In my tests I have found that modern Remington ammunition fails to feed properly most of the time. Oddly enough, your holdopen problem probably masked this by not allowing your Luger to auto-load. If you look through the "Shooting and Reloading" Forum section you will find many discussions about which ammunition operates a Luger effectively. The trigger did not re-set most of the time and I had to re- the pistol. Anyone have a clue on this issue? There are several possibilities here, not as straighforward as the solutions to your other problems. Best to solve them first and remove what variables there may be affecting this one, and then attack it directly. --Dwight

12-07-2008, 05:55 PM	#4
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Great info, guys, many thanks Tom, I have replied to your PM.

12-13-2008, 08:58 PM	#5
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	1. Some fitting to the take-down lever has that working acceptably. 2. A hold-open spring, new Mecgar mag, and some wooden grips are on the way from Lugerdoc. 3. I did the tigger-lever/disconnector plunger modification I found on the site. 4. I re-fitted the safety lever pin and did the "bending" operation I also found here, that's acceptably tight now. 5. Discovered that the chromed "INTERARMS" mag that came with the pistol is actually a Mecgar. 6. I removed the hold-open pending receipt of the spring. 7. Tomorrow we're going to the range to try some WWB, Chinese 124gr., and some 1950s Canadian "CIA" mil-surp ammo. It's been a productive week. I hope some of the work paid off and I can report some success!

12-14-2008, 05:14 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Johnny, Be extremely careful about the Chinese ammo and the Canadian mil-surp. Unless you know for a fact otherwise, these could be +P or submachine gun ammunition. Both categories are too powerful for a Luger, and at the very least will beat one to an early death. --Dwight

12-14-2008, 09:07 AM	#7
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Understood. Plan is two mags of each to test functioning.

12-14-2008, 10:49 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Shooting without a locking bolt spring in place will produce somewhat entertaining effects and is not recommended. Loosing the side plate is only one part of the problem. The pistol will field strip itself during recoil, unhooking the connecting link and pushing the complete upper assembly partially from the frame. We know. We tried....

12-14-2008, 11:30 AM	#9
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	So far that hasn't been an issue, since the locking bolt is still VERY tight. Better fitting and a spring are in the plan. Good news and bad news on today's range session. 1. All three types of ammo cycled perfectly. I'm very happy about this. The Canadian was most accurate. 2. Unfortunately the trigger did not re-set a single time! I have chamfered the trigger lever and disconnector edges, perhaps not enough. The trigger lever pin is not original and there is a bit of side-to-side play. Could that also be a problem? What else can I do with the re-setting problem? Thanks.