Simson identification help, please.

callmike2 · 11-24-2008, 08:05 AM

I recently inherited a Simson & Co., Suhl luger. I've been scouring websites to find conclusive identification, but realize that this is as much art as science. First, all parts have the same serial number, even the magazine. Under the barrel, the serial number is 889 with the letter "a" beneath it. I will take photos of all marks over the next few days. It appears in very clean condition, no dirt or rust marks. The grips feel too "fat." Thanks in advance for helping me get started on this trek.

Edward Tinker · 11-24-2008, 09:05 AM

Mike, I bet I can help, since I co-wrote the book Simson Lugers

Here is what I'd like to know (and see in pictures)

(picture of 889a) Serial number to include suffix if there is one

All matching?

Does the bottom of the stock lug have a E6 E6 or E33 E33 on it (as if looking UP the magazine well from underneath)

what are the markings on the right; i.e. eagle 6 (E6) E6 E6 proof eagle? or

Does it have a Sear safety or other police or unit markings on the front or rear grip strap?

Please post info here, but feel free to email direct weimar_lugers@verizon.net

889a was probably made around 1933 and Simson grips are known to be "fatter" than other manufacturers.

Ed

callmike2 · 11-24-2008, 10:13 AM

Thank you! I'll print your request and follow through explicitly within the next few days. The "a" is beneath the serial number and is not script or cursive. Just a small letter a.

[/IMG]

Edward Tinker · 11-24-2008, 10:42 AM

Sounds good. simson's were the smallest number of lugers manufacturered, they made about a thousand less + than Krieghoffs; and were hard used, so generally you find them in average to rougher shape, very nice ones are much harder to find.

Their serial number range is 1-1900a (first 10000 made, then they went into the "a" suffix range, and went up to around 1900a), so about 11,900 - 12,000 made.

Ed

callmike2 · 11-24-2008, 05:55 PM

I've added 19 photos to an album. You can choose the album entitled, Simson 889a to see them. I hope these pix help in identification. I would like to know when it was made, how and where it was used and an approximate value.

Also, should I have the gun professionally cleaned and re-blued? I do plan to keep it.

Edward Tinker · 11-24-2008, 08:00 PM

It looks like a fairly nice Simson; it needs to be cleaned with oil and probably 0000 steel wool (nothing more rough).

Don’t consider rebluing it, as that will ruin the collector value. Its bluing is a bit rougher, but it has a matching magazine, which is fairly unusual and rarer. I would think it is worth at least $2,500, and possibly a bit more.

The initials on the left and some of the finish is rougher, if it was a bit nicer and no initials, probably worth closer to $3500.

Restoring could make it nicer, but restoring in the collecting community is essentially the same as rebluing, its collector value is gone.

Ed

callmike2 · 11-25-2008, 06:26 AM

We will follow your advice and oil it nicely and give it a light rub with the 4-ought steel wool. Your assistance has been invaluable. I'm sure that everyone who reads this forum already thinks that, whether they say it or not. Thank You again!

11-24-2008, 08:05 AM	#1
callmike2 New User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Simson identification help, please. I recently inherited a Simson & Co., Suhl luger. I've been scouring websites to find conclusive identification, but realize that this is as much art as science. First, all parts have the same serial number, even the magazine. Under the barrel, the serial number is 889 with the letter "a" beneath it. I will take photos of all marks over the next few days. It appears in very clean condition, no dirt or rust marks. The grips feel too "fat." Thanks in advance for helping me get started on this trek.

11-24-2008, 09:05 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Mike, I bet I can help, since I co-wrote the book Simson Lugers Here is what I'd like to know (and see in pictures) (picture of 889a) Serial number to include suffix if there is one All matching? Does the bottom of the stock lug have a E6 E6 or E33 E33 on it (as if looking UP the magazine well from underneath) what are the markings on the right; i.e. eagle 6 (E6) E6 E6 proof eagle? or Does it have a Sear safety or other police or unit markings on the front or rear grip strap? Please post info here, but feel free to email direct weimar_lugers@verizon.net 889a was probably made around 1933 and Simson grips are known to be "fatter" than other manufacturers. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-24-2008, 10:13 AM	#3
callmike2 New User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you! I'll print your request and follow through explicitly within the next few days. The "a" is beneath the serial number and is not script or cursive. Just a small letter a. [/IMG] Last edited by callmike2; 11-25-2008 at 06:05 AM.

11-24-2008, 10:42 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	Sounds good. simson's were the smallest number of lugers manufacturered, they made about a thousand less + than Krieghoffs; and were hard used, so generally you find them in average to rougher shape, very nice ones are much harder to find. Their serial number range is 1-1900a (first 10000 made, then they went into the "a" suffix range, and went up to around 1900a), so about 11,900 - 12,000 made. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-24-2008, 05:55 PM	#5
callmike2 New User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I've added 19 photos to an album. You can choose the album entitled, Simson 889a to see them. I hope these pix help in identification. I would like to know when it was made, how and where it was used and an approximate value. Also, should I have the gun professionally cleaned and re-blued? I do plan to keep it. Last edited by callmike2; 11-25-2008 at 06:17 AM.

11-24-2008, 08:00 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,926 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,523 Times in 2,089 Posts	It looks like a fairly nice Simson; it needs to be cleaned with oil and probably 0000 steel wool (nothing more rough). Don’t consider rebluing it, as that will ruin the collector value. Its bluing is a bit rougher, but it has a matching magazine, which is fairly unusual and rarer. I would think it is worth at least $2,500, and possibly a bit more. The initials on the left and some of the finish is rougher, if it was a bit nicer and no initials, probably worth closer to $3500. Restoring could make it nicer, but restoring in the collecting community is essentially the same as rebluing, its collector value is gone. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-25-2008, 06:26 AM	#7
callmike2 New User Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	We will follow your advice and oil it nicely and give it a light rub with the 4-ought steel wool. Your assistance has been invaluable. I'm sure that everyone who reads this forum already thinks that, whether they say it or not. Thank You again!