DWM K.M.; identification help (dial-up beware big pictures)

[lw55566]

Hi first post on the board. Looking for help identifying the luger. There is no chamber date.

Here are photos:

















Let me know if any other specific views would help.

[Pete Ebbink]

I will let our Mauser collectors jump in...

But I can offer 3 words :

Wow !

Dutch

Rare

[Dwight Gruber]

Michael,

A very nice Dutch Luger, and a very rare example. It would be useful to know the full serial number (with suffix), and to see the number on the front of the frame. It would also be useful to see the barrel band where the front sight is mounted.

We are all curious to see the full view of the right side of the gun, and curious to know the markings on the magazine bottom.

It is noteworthy that the barrel has no witness mark, and that it appears to have Mauser-style grips.

I have taken the liberty to lighten up your photos so everyone can see it clearly.

--Dwight

[lw55566]

thanks for replies

full serial number: 2046

I see no suffix.



photo of other side sometime tomorrow morning...

[lw55566]

nevermind about tomorrow had photo already...

[Vlim]

Hi,

The Dutch Navy accepted the P08-style lugers as 'Pistool Automatisch nr. 1', not to be confused with the KNIL version, which had a grip safety.

K.M. stands for "Koninklijke Marine" or Royal (Dutch) Navy.

A pretty rare find. Congratulations on owning an exquisit Dutch luger.

The first Dutch Navies were ordered, assembled and proofed at DWM in Berlin. After the move of machinery and production to Oberndorf in 1930 , Mauser initially continued assembling guns from DWM parts, the guns were proofed in Oberndorf, hence the crown/U proof and the DWM toggle marking.

The gun shown was part of a batch delivered to the Dutch navy in March, 1932.

ps. 'Rust' is Dutch for 'rest' or 'at ease', roughly translates to 'safe' (but not entirely).

[Pete Ebbink]

"The Dutch Luger" book on page 145 indicates a total of 1,170 of this variety...with SN's running from # 1485 to # 2554 (inclusive) running from 1930 through 1939. Somewhere around 1937, the old DWM toggle changed to the Mauser Banner toggle with chamber dates, etc.

Michael,

Would it be possible to see a photo of the bottom-view of the wooden magazine ?

[lw55566]

Thanks for the info

Best I could do of the magazine bottom... Perhaps a better photo tomorrow when the sun is out.



I know it is hard not seeing the gun in person, but can any one through out a value for this pistol.

[Edward Tinker]

Michael, I would guess $3500-$4500, but it depends on if all parts are matched (these were well used guns by the dutch). Matching grips (or GP marked), matching firing pin, etc? The more "matched", the more the value...

Vlim, I think it interesting that it has a "proofed" barrel, but no witness marking?

Ed

[Pete Ebbink]

Ed,

If I am not mistaken, the last Luger like this with KM on the grip strap at Simpsons LTD had an asking of over $ 8K...

Here is another one similar to Michael's gun...but a bit later in the series after the Mauser Banner appeared...still KM marked. Asking of nearly $ 9K.

http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/ad...hp?itemID=4218

The authors of "The Dutch Luger" on page 167 (written in 1994) state "...as less than a dozen Navy Lugers with "KM" marks are known...".

I think the KM makes them quite rare and desirable.

Michael,

Thanks for the magazine bottom photo. Quite an unusual repair/modification witht the little metal "staple" in the wood. I have not seen that before...maybe others have...???

Here is a photo of an early Dutch Luger magazine with its unique metal tab retainer. I thought yours may have had this, initially.



Also...if you are interested in the Dutch Luger book, you can pick it up brand new at Simpson's LTD :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2637

Bob and Brad Simpson at the Simpsons LTD shop also offer a $ 135 Luger appraisal service. It might be worthwhile in case you ever decide to sell this Luger. An expert appraisal would certainly help a prospective buyer fell more assured with his/her purchase. Here is the link to that appraisal service :

http://www.simpsonltd.com/luger_appraisal.php

With a Luger this rare, I would probably make an appointment and travel to the shop in person with the gun. Hate to have it lost in the mail...

[Edward Tinker]

Pete, I have never said that I was a "dutch" expert and do not keep up on valeus like this and obviously my value was too low.

But 8.5K, no f#$%^ way an individual seller is going to get that.

Please compare condition and like I said, you are welcome to offer a different value.

[Pete Ebbink]

Hi Ed,

Asking and selling are always two different things.

I guess if I will selling it, I would want $ 8K or more. If I were buying I would want to pay $ 6500...

[Vlim]

Hi Pete,

I doubt that the Dutch Navy lugers had the magazines with the spring catch. Initially they would be normal unnumbered nickle-plated magazines with ordinary wood bottoms, later replaced by blued tube magazines with wood bottoms, eventually replaced by the Haenel-type.

Ed: I think the lack of a witness mark shows that it's early Mauser assembly.

[lw55566]

thanks again for the input-

So I need to check:

Grip
Firing pin

What else?


Not doing to bad for a very conservative investment...

[Edward Tinker]

Gerben, thanks, that makes sense.

Pete, depends on who wants what. As an example, I paid too much for a 1925 dated Simson last December, but heck, I hadn't seen very many for sale (somehow I own two now...) and wanted it, come hell or high water.... 600 made, kinda rare, so I said, she'll stay at the house...

[Pete Ebbink]

Michael,

The left side of the extractor (when it is rasied up a bit with a round in the chamber but can also be lifted with your finger) should be stamped "Geladen". Is the right side of your extractor marked in any way ?

[lw55566]

Both sides are marked as shown below



Inside view of grips



Thanks again everyone.

[Pete Ebbink]

Thanks, Michael...extractor markings on both sides is as it should be.

Congratulations on your find. You have a very desirable and envious Luger !!!

If you are looking for a holster, I have attached a photo scan of the "Dutch" holster that is proper for your gun...in case lightining strikes twice and you are lucky enought to find a holster as well...

Last one I saw that sold about a year ago went for $ 700...in good condition...

[Pete Ebbink]

Michael,

Here is another one with an asking price of $ 6K at Cabelas :

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/co...utlger_dun.jsp

The holster appears to be a Bulgarian model and not a Dutch holster...

[tonyb]

great to see anther one i think there would be very few surviving in the world.
Cheers tony
[ i posted some pics last year]