Bergmann Bayard M1910

azlaw · 07-03-2008, 10:52 AM

My pal's quest for weird old guns led him to buy a Steyr Hahn 1911 in 9mm Steyr/Largo. Because of this, I am now producing 9mm Steyr/Largo rounds to feed it (it runs great - lots of fun to shoot). This fact gives rise to a dangerous (to my budget) renewal of my latent interest in the Bergmann Bayard M1910.

Anyone know anything about these Bergmann guns? Which model(s) most desirable? Prices? Pitfalls?

Thanks!

H

Navy · 07-03-2008, 11:32 AM

azlaw,

Pls contact my pal George Anderson (Keoki77@earthlink.net) He is liquidating a part of my collection and among other items is a splendid Bergmann 10/21 with a full rig holster and cleaning rod. Suffice it to say, these rigs are hens teeth rare.

Tom A

Karl · 07-05-2008, 08:34 AM

Azlaw,

FYI, 9mm Steyr and 9mm Largo are not the same thing.
KFS

azlaw · 07-05-2008, 08:54 PM

Yes, that is so. However, from a reloading perspective, the only difference is the load, as far as I can see. Haven't blown anything up yet.

H

Karl · 07-06-2008, 10:26 AM

Azlaw,

If I am not mistaken the steyr cartridge is a little bit longer than the largo. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than I can clarify that. I would be interested in your reloading data source. What are you using for brass? KFS

azlaw · 07-06-2008, 12:21 PM

This is straying into a reloading discussion, but...

Since you ask, the external dimensions among 9mm Largo, Bayard, and Steyr are in fact slightly different. This was intentional. I understand that this was due to a need to avoid patent infringements among gunmakers who all wanted to do the same thing, but didn't want to pay royalties. The Steyr guns will chamber and function with the 9mm Largo cartridge, but should not be used with Largo loads. Largo rounds are significiantly "hotter" loads than the older Steyr and Bayard. .38 Super was a lot hotter when it came along later, but was also the same idea.

We are using Starline 9mm Largo brass, with Hornady 9mm Largo dies and a Dillon 9mm crimp die. I will post the data when I get back home next week.

9mm Largo
Bullet Diameter:.355
Neck Diameter: .379
Base Diameter: .390
Rim Diameter: .392
Case Length: 0.91
Cartridge Length: 1.32

9mm Bayard Long
Bullet Diameter:.355
Neck Diameter: .375
Base Diameter: .390
Rim Diameter: .392
Case Length: 0.91
Cartridge Length: 1.32

9mm Steyr
Bullet Diameter:.355
Neck Diameter: .380
Base Diameter: .380
Rim Diameter: .381
Case Length: 0.90
Cartridge Length: 1.30

azlaw · 07-10-2008, 12:11 PM

And as promised, the load data for use in a 9mm Steyr Hahn 1911:

Case: 9mm Largo Starline
Bullet: 115 gr RN Lead .355
Charge: 7 .1 gr HS-6
OAL: 1.25

Note that 9mm Largo and Bayard are mildly tapered, the Steyr is not. Short answer is: it doesn't matter. We also now use a 38 Super crimp die, which is closer to the Steyr spec than 9mm Parabellum, not that the 9mm die didn't work just fine.

H

07-03-2008, 10:52 AM	#1
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 204 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Bergmann Bayard M1910 My pal's quest for weird old guns led him to buy a Steyr Hahn 1911 in 9mm Steyr/Largo. Because of this, I am now producing 9mm Steyr/Largo rounds to feed it (it runs great - lots of fun to shoot). This fact gives rise to a dangerous (to my budget) renewal of my latent interest in the Bergmann Bayard M1910. Anyone know anything about these Bergmann guns? Which model(s) most desirable? Prices? Pitfalls? Thanks! H

07-03-2008, 11:32 AM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	azlaw, Pls contact my pal George Anderson (Keoki77@earthlink.net) He is liquidating a part of my collection and among other items is a splendid Bergmann 10/21 with a full rig holster and cleaning rod. Suffice it to say, these rigs are hens teeth rare. Tom A

07-05-2008, 08:34 AM	#3
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 519 Thanks: 0 Thanked 262 Times in 115 Posts	Azlaw, FYI, 9mm Steyr and 9mm Largo are not the same thing. KFS

07-05-2008, 08:54 PM	#4
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 204 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	Yes, that is so. However, from a reloading perspective, the only difference is the load, as far as I can see. Haven't blown anything up yet. H

07-06-2008, 10:26 AM	#5
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 519 Thanks: 0 Thanked 262 Times in 115 Posts	Azlaw, If I am not mistaken the steyr cartridge is a little bit longer than the largo. Perhaps someone more knowledgable than I can clarify that. I would be interested in your reloading data source. What are you using for brass? KFS

07-06-2008, 12:21 PM	#6
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 204 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	This is straying into a reloading discussion, but... Since you ask, the external dimensions among 9mm Largo, Bayard, and Steyr are in fact slightly different. This was intentional. I understand that this was due to a need to avoid patent infringements among gunmakers who all wanted to do the same thing, but didn't want to pay royalties. The Steyr guns will chamber and function with the 9mm Largo cartridge, but should not be used with Largo loads. Largo rounds are significiantly "hotter" loads than the older Steyr and Bayard. .38 Super was a lot hotter when it came along later, but was also the same idea. We are using Starline 9mm Largo brass, with Hornady 9mm Largo dies and a Dillon 9mm crimp die. I will post the data when I get back home next week. 9mm Largo Bullet Diameter:.355 Neck Diameter: .379 Base Diameter: .390 Rim Diameter: .392 Case Length: 0.91 Cartridge Length: 1.32 9mm Bayard Long Bullet Diameter:.355 Neck Diameter: .375 Base Diameter: .390 Rim Diameter: .392 Case Length: 0.91 Cartridge Length: 1.32 9mm Steyr Bullet Diameter:.355 Neck Diameter: .380 Base Diameter: .380 Rim Diameter: .381 Case Length: 0.90 Cartridge Length: 1.30

07-10-2008, 12:11 PM	#7
azlaw User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 204 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	And as promised, the load data for use in a 9mm Steyr Hahn 1911: Case: 9mm Largo Starline Bullet: 115 gr RN Lead .355 Charge: 7 .1 gr HS-6 OAL: 1.25 Note that 9mm Largo and Bayard are mildly tapered, the Steyr is not. Short answer is: it doesn't matter. We also now use a 38 Super crimp die, which is closer to the Steyr spec than 9mm Parabellum, not that the 9mm die didn't work just fine. H