ID of Dad's Luger - Year/Commerical?

OldCuber · 04-29-2008, 06:27 PM

Hi all,
I have inherited my Dad's Luger some years ago and it has been stored away for years. He bought it from some guy in PA before WWII. With renewed interest, I'm having trouble narrowing the year of manufacture and whether it is commercial. I recently broke it down for cleaning and here are the markings:

Script DWM on rear toggle link. No year on barrel or chamber; its blank.
Serial # 6522 with an "a" like character below, on the front Frame.
With the Receiver and Barrel removed, there is a "G" stamped on the inside of the Frame.
On the rear of the Frame is stamped "Made in Germany"
It has wood handles and wood on the only magazine.
It has the thumb safety.
All parts that I saw have the "22" matched stamp.

I guess that is the best I can do without pictures. I assume this is a commerical model?
I remember firing it with my Dad some years ago. Still have the 9mm ammo.

I guess for some reason I'm all of a sudden real interested in finding out all I can about this piece. The internet is the a great place to start!
Your help is appreciated...

Thanks,
Jim

Edward Tinker · 04-29-2008, 06:49 PM

Jim, welcome to the forum.

Whats comes to mind, I think there are two possibilities;

1. Imperial that was "refurbished" and then sold to the USA market, and the date was removed (does it have a stock lug or is it smooth on the rear of the gripstrap frame)

2. Commercial, made for the US market, if so, then it was made around 1920, if the "a" is really a "o" or "q" then it would be 1925 or 1927.

Pictures could help us a bit more.

How is it proofed and accepted? i.e. crown N on the left or markings on the right of the receiver?

ed

OldCuber · 04-29-2008, 10:47 PM

Ed,
I'm trying to post a photo but having no luck so far.
Jim

OldCuber · 04-29-2008, 11:39 PM

Hmmm, all appeared now except this one:

http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jimluger1s.jpg

Edward Tinker · 04-30-2008, 12:17 AM

Jim, I changed the "url" to img and that makes the photos appear on the screen. bottom right of your posting is a paper and pencil, its the edit icon.

The magazine looks like it is a navy mag, if so, it is worth money by itself.

The luger is probably worth $600-$700, maybe a bit more, as the finish is pretty thin on the topside and it appears that at least one number is mismatched (it looks like a 8 on the sear bar?)

ed

John Sabato · 04-30-2008, 09:53 AM

The chamber area looks to me as if the date has been removed as Ed has suggested... Likely a WW1 refurb and sold commercially in the USA. Lets see some closeups of the magazine out of the pistol... I think Ed is right and the magazine may be worth almost as much as the pistol if it is as nice as it appears to be. The searbar stamp that is showing does look like an "8" which would be a mismatched part, or possibly a very small font "2" which would be a match...

What part of WV are you from Jim... I live in VA right at the border with WV along I-81...

OldCuber · 04-30-2008, 11:15 AM

Ed. Thanks for fixing the photos! I tried the "img" thing but didn't show up here.

If you mean by "sear bar", "trigger bar plunger", then it has "22" stamped on it. It looks like an 8 in the photo.

The magazine has the number "5634" impression below the finish on the wood end of the mag.

Thanks for the estimate of the value. I want to take care of it and don't want to sell.

I know the finish is worn on the top. After taking it apart its amazing how close fitting the pieces are. The inside barrel seems ok but it is not super shinny like modern rifles. The wide groves in the rifling look like I need to clean better, especially around the breech. I want to try shooting it but was hoping to have a gunsmith inspect it first. One good gunsmith I knew about here is out of business.

JS. I'm near Harpers Ferry, WV. I'll post a foto of the magazine later.

Jim

John Sabato · 04-30-2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

What part of WV are you from Jim... I live in VA right at the border with WV along I-81...

You mentioned that you also have some ammo... if it is WW2 ammo, don't shoot it... it is corrosive, and it is collectible... buy Winchester 115 gr 100 round white box ammo at Walmart. Most Lugers like this ammo and function well with it.

OldCuber · 04-30-2008, 05:47 PM

Ed and JS,
Below are the fotos of the magazine and of some ammo that was stored with the pistol. Note the ammo in the top box has two stars and 11 and 50 stamped on them. From an ammo site I'm guessing Chinese?, 1950. Notice too that the 5 lower shells look like they were struck by the firing pin but did not fire! Don't think I'll try these...unless the firing spring may be weak in the Luger.

The other box is near full with BFD and 53 stamped on them. From the ammo site it looks like BFD stands for Bombrini Parodi Delfino, Rome, Italy! I think all 50 are in the box.

However, I'll get some from Wal-Mart to test fire.

Any more guess as to the date? It's really hard for me anyway to tell if a date over the breech was really there and removed or originally blank.
Thanks,
Jim

OldCuber · 04-30-2008, 09:08 PM

Regarding the Magazine,
Besides the number 5634 on the bottom of the wood on the magazine, there is a capital letter M with a crown on top on the wood more closely to the flat edge of the mag.

JS, I'm located near Harpers Ferry, WV. What is your closest town?

Jim

MFC · 04-30-2008, 09:17 PM

Jim,
The serial #'s are stamped in the military style and with the stock lug, this Luger had a date on the chamber, (probably 1914 to 1918). It also had proofs on the right side of the receiver. Commercial serial #'s are stamped in the hidden style, not easily seen.
Don't use that mag for shooting... the wood bottom can get brittle after 90+ years and crack from the shock of firing. Navy mags sell for $300 - $400.
Mike C.

John Sabato · 05-01-2008, 08:56 AM

I concur with MFC's assessment. That mag is WW1 Navy... and they are pretty rare... keep it oiled, but don't get any more oil on the wood...

So the ammo that you have is clearly post war surplus... Not knowing it's origin, I still wouldn't shoot it in your Luger. Perhaps you have another more modern 9mm in which you can use it... the reason being that it might be submachine gun ammo and possibly too hot for your Luger.

I live in Winchester... and word in the Nation's Capital.

OldCuber · 05-01-2008, 08:42 PM

Mike and John S.,
Thank you both for the assessment of my Luger and the magazine. I hate to say this but the wood on the magazine appears to be repaired by a glue joint. So I believe that the wood on the bottom was split in the past. I guess that shoots the value down now. Oh well. That's funny that you were concerned about the wood condition and that sure must of been the case with this magazine much earlier. I guess I should still be concerned about using it.

Where can one look for a more modern magazine for just shooting? I'll look around the internet. I bought some ammo at Walmart today.

Also, I guess that the pistol was originally WWI German Navy as well before it was "cleaned" and made available for the US market.

John, of course Winchester is not far. Do you know of any gun shows in the region over the next few months? I'd be interested in seeing collections of Lugers perhaps yours if so.

Thanks again,
Jim

TooTech · 05-02-2008, 09:59 PM

For a shooter mag you can't beat a Luger magazine made by Mec-gar. You can find them for sale out on Gunbroker.com. Cost is usually around 30 bucks. They make a version with a blued tube, and for a couple bucks more there is a nickle tubed versin.

Mec-gar makes the factory mags for Sig/Sauer among others, so you know they make quality.

04-29-2008, 06:27 PM	#1
OldCuber User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	ID of Dad's Luger - Year/Commerical? Hi all, I have inherited my Dad's Luger some years ago and it has been stored away for years. He bought it from some guy in PA before WWII. With renewed interest, I'm having trouble narrowing the year of manufacture and whether it is commercial. I recently broke it down for cleaning and here are the markings: Script DWM on rear toggle link. No year on barrel or chamber; its blank. Serial # 6522 with an "a" like character below, on the front Frame. With the Receiver and Barrel removed, there is a "G" stamped on the inside of the Frame. On the rear of the Frame is stamped "Made in Germany" It has wood handles and wood on the only magazine. It has the thumb safety. All parts that I saw have the "22" matched stamp. I guess that is the best I can do without pictures. I assume this is a commerical model? I remember firing it with my Dad some years ago. Still have the 9mm ammo. I guess for some reason I'm all of a sudden real interested in finding out all I can about this piece. The internet is the a great place to start! Your help is appreciated... Thanks, Jim

04-29-2008, 06:49 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Jim, welcome to the forum. Whats comes to mind, I think there are two possibilities; 1. Imperial that was "refurbished" and then sold to the USA market, and the date was removed (does it have a stock lug or is it smooth on the rear of the gripstrap frame) 2. Commercial, made for the US market, if so, then it was made around 1920, if the "a" is really a "o" or "q" then it would be 1925 or 1927. Pictures could help us a bit more. How is it proofed and accepted? i.e. crown N on the left or markings on the right of the receiver? ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-30-2008, 09:53 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The chamber area looks to me as if the date has been removed as Ed has suggested... Likely a WW1 refurb and sold commercially in the USA. Lets see some closeups of the magazine out of the pistol... I think Ed is right and the magazine may be worth almost as much as the pistol if it is as nice as it appears to be. The searbar stamp that is showing does look like an "8" which would be a mismatched part, or possibly a very small font "2" which would be a match... What part of WV are you from Jim... I live in VA right at the border with WV along I-81... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-30-2008, 09:17 PM	#11
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Jim, The serial #'s are stamped in the military style and with the stock lug, this Luger had a date on the chamber, (probably 1914 to 1918). It also had proofs on the right side of the receiver. Commercial serial #'s are stamped in the hidden style, not easily seen. Don't use that mag for shooting... the wood bottom can get brittle after 90+ years and crack from the shock of firing. Navy mags sell for $300 - $400. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

05-01-2008, 08:56 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I concur with MFC's assessment. That mag is WW1 Navy... and they are pretty rare... keep it oiled, but don't get any more oil on the wood... So the ammo that you have is clearly post war surplus... Not knowing it's origin, I still wouldn't shoot it in your Luger. Perhaps you have another more modern 9mm in which you can use it... the reason being that it might be submachine gun ammo and possibly too hot for your Luger. I live in Winchester... and word in the Nation's Capital. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-29-2008, 10:47 PM	#3
OldCuber User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I'm trying to post a photo but having no luck so far. Jim

04-29-2008, 11:39 PM	#4
OldCuber User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hmmm, all appeared now except this one: http://forum.lugerforum.com/lfupload/jimluger1s.jpg

04-30-2008, 12:17 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Jim, I changed the "url" to img and that makes the photos appear on the screen. bottom right of your posting is a paper and pencil, its the edit icon. The magazine looks like it is a navy mag, if so, it is worth money by itself. The luger is probably worth $600-$700, maybe a bit more, as the finish is pretty thin on the topside and it appears that at least one number is mismatched (it looks like a 8 on the sear bar?) ed

04-30-2008, 11:15 AM	#7
OldCuber User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed. Thanks for fixing the photos! I tried the "img" thing but didn't show up here. If you mean by "sear bar", "trigger bar plunger", then it has "22" stamped on it. It looks like an 8 in the photo. The magazine has the number "5634" impression below the finish on the wood end of the mag. Thanks for the estimate of the value. I want to take care of it and don't want to sell. I know the finish is worn on the top. After taking it apart its amazing how close fitting the pieces are. The inside barrel seems ok but it is not super shinny like modern rifles. The wide groves in the rifling look like I need to clean better, especially around the breech. I want to try shooting it but was hoping to have a gunsmith inspect it first. One good gunsmith I knew about here is out of business. JS. I'm near Harpers Ferry, WV. I'll post a foto of the magazine later. Jim

04-30-2008, 05:47 PM	#9
OldCuber User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed and JS, Below are the fotos of the magazine and of some ammo that was stored with the pistol. Note the ammo in the top box has two stars and 11 and 50 stamped on them. From an ammo site I'm guessing Chinese?, 1950. Notice too that the 5 lower shells look like they were struck by the firing pin but did not fire! Don't think I'll try these...unless the firing spring may be weak in the Luger. The other box is near full with BFD and 53 stamped on them. From the ammo site it looks like BFD stands for Bombrini Parodi Delfino, Rome, Italy! I think all 50 are in the box. However, I'll get some from Wal-Mart to test fire. Any more guess as to the date? It's really hard for me anyway to tell if a date over the breech was really there and removed or originally blank. Thanks, Jim

04-30-2008, 09:08 PM	#10
OldCuber User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Regarding the Magazine, Besides the number 5634 on the bottom of the wood on the magazine, there is a capital letter M with a crown on top on the wood more closely to the flat edge of the mag. JS, I'm located near Harpers Ferry, WV. What is your closest town? Jim

05-01-2008, 08:42 PM	#13
OldCuber User Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: West Virginia Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mike and John S., Thank you both for the assessment of my Luger and the magazine. I hate to say this but the wood on the magazine appears to be repaired by a glue joint. So I believe that the wood on the bottom was split in the past. I guess that shoots the value down now. Oh well. That's funny that you were concerned about the wood condition and that sure must of been the case with this magazine much earlier. I guess I should still be concerned about using it. Where can one look for a more modern magazine for just shooting? I'll look around the internet. I bought some ammo at Walmart today. Also, I guess that the pistol was originally WWI German Navy as well before it was "cleaned" and made available for the US market. John, of course Winchester is not far. Do you know of any gun shows in the region over the next few months? I'd be interested in seeing collections of Lugers perhaps yours if so. Thanks again, Jim

05-02-2008, 09:59 PM	#14
TooTech User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 23 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	For a shooter mag you can't beat a Luger magazine made by Mec-gar. You can find them for sale out on Gunbroker.com. Cost is usually around 30 bucks. They make a version with a blued tube, and for a couple bucks more there is a nickle tubed versin. Mec-gar makes the factory mags for Sig/Sauer among others, so you know they make quality.