an odd one

StarOfTheWest · 12-08-2007, 03:05 PM

This is not one of the pretty ones, but is filled with ambiguity and collector intrigue, lol.

1900 AE, serial in the 19000 series, all matched.
Stamped "Germany" below the front lower frame serial.
Slim tapered barrel, narrow trigger, wide trigger guard.
Poor bore and finish.
No DWM on toggle link.
Last 3 serial digits on some small internals.
Intermediate grip safety width, between narrow and wide.
Upon closer inspection, the frame *is* relieved, but the mag still hangs at about the 80% point while inserting. Even with the grips off.
Left side grip not original, has been ground out for grip safety.
There is apparently some small round thing rolling around loose inside the magazine.
Gahhh, gotta find the pin punches and disassemble that too, I suppose.
Barrel is serialed, but no proofs.
Now the interesting part.

From the family list notes:
This gun could be a very controversial AE, or one of the most rare.
Has a tiny USN stamped on bottom of receiver, to the right of the barrel lug that might be a US Navy mark.
US is above N, S is almost unreadable, also a small 0 and 4 at 7 and 5 o'clock from the witness mark.
Experimental intermediate grip safety width mentioned in reference material.

Beats me, I never heard of such a beastie.
Going to take me a while to get photos of those tiny little marks.

MFC · 12-09-2007, 01:52 AM

Very early 1902 transitional???
Is the toggle train and extractor the same as earlier numbered M1900s?
Is the grip safety also numbered w/ the last 3 digits?
Is there any evidence of DWM having been removed from the toggle?
If the bevel on the edges is gone or not as wide as others, the toggle has been filed or sanded down.
When the mag is inserted about 80%, it makes contact with the mag release button. The mag is probaly bent or warped (too wide) at the top. If you try other mags you may find that not all will get hung up. I have a 1900 commercial that does the same thing.
Mike C.

Lugerdoc · 12-09-2007, 08:47 AM

Star, Your 19xxx range M1900 is in a range where some were sent to Portugal for testing. These usually have the full serial # added to the left side of the receiver and may have some Portugese rework marks: kk/a number in a circle, 9 in a circle, etc. Tom H.

StarOfTheWest · 12-09-2007, 01:22 PM

Thank you for your observations, folks.

Yes, I doubt the family list guess as to meaning of the internal stamped marks.
Sometimes, the list is very accurate, other times, I wonder about the conclusions drawn, and write it off to bad info in the old books.

I agree with Ron Wood, who graciously called me yesterday, that the usn marks were most likely inspector marks.
This is a junkyard dog of a matched 1900, and I am a bit regretful of posting details of *this* particular gun for the first in detail description on this board.
It is rough and has some problems.

The toggle may very well have had the DWM ground off, upon closer inspection, but the whole beastie is in such a shape that I may have missed this.

It has the mag glitch, is in awful shape, (no pitting, but damn, no blue either), and is really not a good representative of this collection.
Just an oddity that happened to pop up because of its mag glitch.

Thanks for the ideas, and I will look for that mark, Lugerdoc, but I don't really think this gun has it.

Just a poor old 107 year old gun that has seen better times.

Lugerdoc · 12-10-2007, 10:49 AM

Star, Sounds like one for my parts bin. TH

StarOfTheWest · 12-10-2007, 04:08 PM

You are all gonna laugh.
The one mag it likes and fits perfectly is marked "Mexico".

I would hesitate to part out a matched numbers 1900, no matter how much of a beast it looks, Doc, but thanks, I'll keep it in mind.

RBorecky · 12-10-2007, 09:32 PM

Dont throw it away as I may enjoy it. I like them ugly but then again you make it sound real ugly hahahaha. Rick B

MFC · 12-10-2007, 11:02 PM

My M1900 came with a near mint 99% Erfurt mag. It's the only one out of the 10 mags I have that it likes.???
Mike C.

Edward Tinker · 12-10-2007, 11:48 PM

Mike I have a luger that only liked one magazine, of course it liked the uglisest mag I had, even Rick wouldn't like it

Lugerdoc · 12-11-2007, 09:42 AM

Star, Your "Mexico" marked mag is an early Triple K. Their current mags do also work, but look a lot better and now made in San Diego, aledgedly by the same Mexicans. TH

12-08-2007, 03:05 PM	#1
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	an odd one This is not one of the pretty ones, but is filled with ambiguity and collector intrigue, lol. 1900 AE, serial in the 19000 series, all matched. Stamped "Germany" below the front lower frame serial. Slim tapered barrel, narrow trigger, wide trigger guard. Poor bore and finish. No DWM on toggle link. Last 3 serial digits on some small internals. Intermediate grip safety width, between narrow and wide. Upon closer inspection, the frame is relieved, but the mag still hangs at about the 80% point while inserting. Even with the grips off. Left side grip not original, has been ground out for grip safety. There is apparently some small round thing rolling around loose inside the magazine. Gahhh, gotta find the pin punches and disassemble that too, I suppose. Barrel is serialed, but no proofs. Now the interesting part. From the family list notes: This gun could be a very controversial AE, or one of the most rare. Has a tiny USN stamped on bottom of receiver, to the right of the barrel lug that might be a US Navy mark. US is above N, S is almost unreadable, also a small 0 and 4 at 7 and 5 o'clock from the witness mark. Experimental intermediate grip safety width mentioned in reference material. Beats me, I never heard of such a beastie. Going to take me a while to get photos of those tiny little marks.

12-09-2007, 01:52 AM	#2
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	Very early 1902 transitional??? Is the toggle train and extractor the same as earlier numbered M1900s? Is the grip safety also numbered w/ the last 3 digits? Is there any evidence of DWM having been removed from the toggle? If the bevel on the edges is gone or not as wide as others, the toggle has been filed or sanded down. When the mag is inserted about 80%, it makes contact with the mag release button. The mag is probaly bent or warped (too wide) at the top. If you try other mags you may find that not all will get hung up. I have a 1900 commercial that does the same thing. Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

12-09-2007, 08:47 AM	#3
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Star, Your 19xxx range M1900 is in a range where some were sent to Portugal for testing. These usually have the full serial # added to the left side of the receiver and may have some Portugese rework marks: kk/a number in a circle, 9 in a circle, etc. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-10-2007, 10:49 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Star, Sounds like one for my parts bin. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-10-2007, 11:02 PM	#8
MFC User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Louisiana Posts: 1,237 Thanks: 183 Thanked 281 Times in 162 Posts	My M1900 came with a near mint 99% Erfurt mag. It's the only one out of the 10 mags I have that it likes.??? Mike C. __________________ Mike C.

12-09-2007, 01:22 PM	#4
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	Thank you for your observations, folks. Yes, I doubt the family list guess as to meaning of the internal stamped marks. Sometimes, the list is very accurate, other times, I wonder about the conclusions drawn, and write it off to bad info in the old books. I agree with Ron Wood, who graciously called me yesterday, that the usn marks were most likely inspector marks. This is a junkyard dog of a matched 1900, and I am a bit regretful of posting details of this particular gun for the first in detail description on this board. It is rough and has some problems. The toggle may very well have had the DWM ground off, upon closer inspection, but the whole beastie is in such a shape that I may have missed this. It has the mag glitch, is in awful shape, (no pitting, but damn, no blue either), and is really not a good representative of this collection. Just an oddity that happened to pop up because of its mag glitch. Thanks for the ideas, and I will look for that mark, Lugerdoc, but I don't really think this gun has it. Just a poor old 107 year old gun that has seen better times.

12-10-2007, 04:08 PM	#6
StarOfTheWest User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: East Texas, CSA Posts: 208 Thanks: 81 Thanked 15 Times in 12 Posts	You are all gonna laugh. The one mag it likes and fits perfectly is marked "Mexico". I would hesitate to part out a matched numbers 1900, no matter how much of a beast it looks, Doc, but thanks, I'll keep it in mind.

12-10-2007, 09:32 PM	#7
RBorecky User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Cleveland,Ohio Posts: 115 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Dont throw it away as I may enjoy it. I like them ugly but then again you make it sound real ugly hahahaha. Rick B

12-10-2007, 11:48 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Mike I have a luger that only liked one magazine, of course it liked the uglisest mag I had, even Rick wouldn't like it __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-11-2007, 09:42 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Star, Your "Mexico" marked mag is an early Triple K. Their current mags do also work, but look a lot better and now made in San Diego, aledgedly by the same Mexicans. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net