To Shoot, or not to shoot? THAT is the question

[Tim Reynolds]

If a person wrecks a midyear-vette or Shellby mustand ,It is going to cost him thousands and thousands of dollars and an original painted classic is worth thousands more than a repaint.It your Luger and I don't care if you drive nails with it by using it as a hammer or shooting.The million dollar 45 Luger was shot so that says it all.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Gentlemen, all you guys who advocate shooting $3000-10000 dollar Lugers have come up with nothing more than bland platitudes..it yours, do what you want blah blah blah. That's a no brainer.

I want to know WHY you would prefer to shoot say a $6500 all matching Imperial Navy rather than one JUST like it with mismatched parts, same caliber etc. costing say..$1000.

Personally, I don't think anyone can really dig deep and answer this. Because the answer is always going to be this..There is NO DIFFERENCE.

If you choose to shoot a $6500 dollar Imperial Navy and risk it's total destruction by breaking a numbered part you are not only foolish but a very poor caretaker of historical artifacts left in your care.
Yes, yes..I know you paid for it etc but what has that got to do with caretaking such a rare and valuble piece of history?

Would you buy a Panda, shoot it and eat it?

Jerry Burney

[Tim Reynolds]

I would shoot the panda and fight for the bones if I was hungry enough.Why buy a Van Gogh for a 100 million when a reproduction that looks just like it for ???.One more thing and I am done.$5000.-10000. won,t even come close to buying a new car.Today it's not that much money.So lock that Luger up and throw away the key.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Tim, Apples and oranges.'' $5000.-10000. won,t even come close to buying a new car.Today it's not that much money.So lock that Luger up and throw away the key.''
A $40,000 new car is rarely ruined by driving it around the block. BUT.. if you chanced blowing the engine every time you started it? It would be a different story.
Another thing...Thousands of new cars are rolling off assembly lines daily. They are insured. A new and better one can be bought .
Not so with say... an Imperial 06 Navy.

Not that much money? That attitude amongst most collectors who work for a living is pretty lame. I work long hard hours to provide for my Family and I gotta tell you, It takes me all year, sometimes longer to save 5 thousand AFTER TAX DOLLARS.

But, I see you nor anyone else can answer the question....

Weird....Jerry Burney


__________________

[wlyon]

I wish I could say that 5-10 thousand is not much money. Must be an age difference here or something. An interesting discussion and also a very old one. If a $10000 luger is not much money I would probably shoot it also. , but to me thats a bundle. Bill

[rayman1]

Like Jerry said, smoke'em if you got'em and to each his own. You only have one, sometimes short life and some folks will enjoy it by engulfing themselves in the artistic beauty and worksmanship of a pristine firearm; other folks enjoy it by reconstructing a time in history with firing a piece of history. And some fall somewhere in-between.

At any rate, it's nice to have a variety of enthusiasts to pick each other's brains on the weapons.

[RalphH]

Greetings, Gentlemen,

I can understand why you wouldn't want to risk damaging an all matching, original finish Luger, when there are many shooter grade Lugers out there. I did not intend to suggest otherwise. I was just speaking for myself.

I guess my Artillery with mismatched extractor falls into shooter grade, but even if it was matched I would still fire it. There are still many Lugers roaming this earth, so my one specimen would not be missed by the collectors in the future. The enjoyment I experience firing the old girl is well worth the price it may cost.

I am a collector of a different persuasion. As an example: I spent five years looking for a decent 1860 Pidault & Cordier that I could restore and fire. In all that time, I had only heard of three examples. Two of them were unacceptable. It cost me 3k+, much more than I have in the Artillery.
There aren't enough of them available to have a shooter and keep a collectible. It is exciting to own the gun but almost orgasmic to actually shoot it. The first firing in almost a century and a half. There were less than one thousand sold to the northern forces during the Civil War. Each came with fifty cartridges. There were no replacement cartridges. Hardly any of the revolvers survived.

I have the need to shoot all of mine, But I know where your coming from and I respect your need to preserve your Lugers for future generations.

I thank you for your indulgence, and God bless.

[Zamo]

When I started this thread, in my "careless nonchelance" and "naivete", (I'll hand it to you Jerry, I've never been accused of those traits before), I assumed there would be divergent oppinions on the issue, but I never suspected I'd be stirring quit this level of hornets nest.
I have resisted responding during this thread, because I really wanted to see how it shook out.
Mr. Burney has repeated his request for a "good reason" to shoot a valuable Luger. I can only speak for myself, but, as I started this tirade, I'll give it a straight from the heart answer.
There is no such thing as a valuable Luger. The true value of any and all Lugers is exactly the same as a shooter. Any inflated value is an artificial value created and perpetuated by a very small segment of the shooting community, namely "The Collecting Community", as you named it. Pistol values may climb ridiculously high within this "Community", but that does not mean that is the real value of an item, any more than my taking a rare and unmolested chicken sandwich and putting a $5000 price tag on it. Few indeed are the (fools) who will rush out and pay that price, yet once Chicken sandwich collecting takes off, more and more people will be hood winked into paying top dollar for the one with Kraft mayonaise instead of Miracle Whip, and Heaven help the collector whose sandwich has had a bite taken out of it, or whose crust has begun to peel...The value of the sandwich remains $1.49 to the great masses, and rather than paying $5000 for one, they will go next door and buy a burger for $2.49. Or maybe some Pizza...
Oh, I realize that for the six people who truly value that one of a kind, historically significant "all original" sandwich, the likes of which will never be offered again (After all, the particular bird carved for that sandwich has long since expired), it's scarcity and value will be high, and ever climb higher as they continue to expound and celebrate the merits of that one sandwich.
What was it P.T. Barnum said?
OK, Now that I've pissed off a few folks to a great extreme, and hopefully made a few chuckle, and even more hopefully made one or two pause and think about things, let me say that I do value History, I hold a B.A. in History, and have 70 some odd collectable firearms (only half of which I have ever shot), I think Mr. Burney's argument against shooting a collectable firearm is sane and valid.
It is also completely dull, boring, and not a formulae I plan on adopting.
Like it or not, there is a romance to old firearms, in particular the Luger. A "mystique".
If you ever saw the movie "Toy Story" you might know what I'm talking about (Maybe it was "Toy Story II?). "If" your Luger had a conscience, do you think it would like to be a shooter? Or a Safe Queen? I'm not saying a piece of metal is sentient, or has feelings or anything like that, but I am saying that each and every one of them is unique and should be "realized".
The story is the same as the beautiful prom queen who stands by the wall because everybody is afraid to ask her to dance...
Maybe these analogies don't ring true to you, but that's the best I can do as to "why" it's important to shoot them: It is what they were made for.
Shooting a Frankensteinian parts assemblage may very closely approximate shooting a pristine example, indeed, for all quantifiable purposes it is the same. However, it's that unquantifiable element that I am trying very hard, and very poorly to illustrate: It's not the same.
In the end, did you shoot Rommel's Luger, or "one just like it"?
When I started this thread, I never meant to suggest a significantly valuable piece should have the heck shot out of it, but as a few others have weighed in, one magazine does not a shooter make.
As to the risk of breaking parts, well, in 30 years of shooting, the only part I've ever broken was on a cheap $90 EAA .22 revolver. These things were designed to be fired. In COMBAT for crying out loud. I'm not saying parts don't break, but I think you are using that as an excuse. If these things were that brittle, few would have made it through two world wars "all matching". Granted I am simplifying things, that is my perogative. I know all about metal fatigue, and stress, and hairline cracks, and over powered cartridges, and what not.
You're right, in the end, it's the OWNERS call. I fully respect anyones decision not to shoot their pistols, for what ever reason. I believe I even said as much in my initial post. If I were into it enough to spend $6000 on a Navy Luger when it seems my family could have used the money better, or in an investment with a greater percentage of return, I might be reluctant to compromise it's value either. But then again, even while Luger prices have done some amazing skyrocketing, buying high is never a wise idea financially, and therefore I wonder if even those using that excuse aren't actually secumbing to the same "romance", "mystique", and "allure" that prompts some of us to want to shoot these grand ol' dames?
The only Luger I currently own cost me about $1600, and is not that impressive of a piece to a collecting grognard, but it's pretty neat to me. I have no intention of ever selling it, so it will always have the same value I spent on it to me. I have no interest in worrying about what shape it will be in in 100 years, as I can guarantee I won't be here to worry about it. I also have no intention of treating with any less admiration and dilligent care as I treat all my antique firearms. It will have a reasonably good chance of passing on to it's next owner in exactly the same shape it's in now, assuming it doesn't undergo one of these freakish breakages you reference, and if it should break, than it will be a shooter, I will get more entertainment out of it, and the next owner will too. I will be out maybe $800. That is a risk I am willing to take for one or maybe two magazines. If it seems extreme to you, might I suggest you never play poker with me, and find a nice quiet corner to cowardly while away your remaining years in. I will be out shooting.
PS:
I apologize if I have angered anyone with my ramblings, but that is how I feel...and you asked!

[Mauser720]

Zamo -

I do not think there is a "right" or "wrong" answer to your question about whether to shoot or not shoot a valuable Luger. It is a matter of personal preference and has a lot to do with the level of tolerence for risk that the individual shooter is willing to accept. If a shooter is not concerned about breaking a serially numbered part on a valuable Luger, they shoot it. However, there is nothing "wrong" with someone deciding that they do not want to risk breaking something on a valuable Luger by shooting it. And you can see elsewhere on this forum that someone has already done a survey of parts that have broken on Lugers. And it probably is true that if you break a serially numbered part on a valuable Luger, it probably will reduce its value by at least 50% or more.

But what about this statement that you make: "There is no such thing as a valuable Luger. The true value of any and all Lugers is exactly the same as a shooter."

The "true value" of anything is actually what someone is willing to pay for it. It makes no difference whether you collect antiques, or paintings, or coins. In every collecting activity, the value of an object is what the collectors are willing to pay for it. I personally would never pay a lot of money for an oil painting. But there are people out there who will pay huge sums for such paintings. It's not worth it to me, but it is worth it to them. And while the prices for old paintings may seem ridiculous to me, such prices do not seem ridiculous to the people who collect them. So I think it is important to recognize that in any collecting endeavor, it is the price that someone is willing to pay for an object that actually determines its value. In other words, as individuals, you and I do not determine what something is actually worth.

Some collectors have a higher tolerence for risk than others. So the decision whether to shoot or not to shoot is an individual choice. However, if any novice asks the question "Should I shoot it?" it is still better to error on the side of caution and let the novice know what risks are involved.

Mauser720 - Ron

[Edward Tinker]

Zamo, I agree and also I disagree with what you say, but this

...nice quiet corner to cowardly while away your remaining years in...

Over the top langauge directed towards an individual is unacceptable; I have visited many other forums where sniping and name calling exist and is acceptable.

It is NOT on this forum.

Everyone has the right to do whatever they want; but if a member starts to make unacceptable comments like that; they will not stay long.

I do not need further comments about free speech or right to talk; that doesn't exist on a private forum.

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