Use of C and R License at Gun Show

10-15-2007, 10:44 PM

I have a C and R license and I am a resident of Texas. If I take a C and R gun to a gun show in another state, can I put the gun on a table for sale if I tag it as can only be sold to anther C and R holder or a holder of a regular gun dealer license?

lugerholsterrepair · 10-15-2007, 10:55 PM

Richard, You are setting up a complicated scenario. To sell a gun you do not need a C&R . You need one to BUY a gun. A C&R is not a liscence to sell guns, only to buy them. It is meant to build a collection. There is little mention in the regs about selling guns. You cannot be a dealer. Buying a gun and turning around and selling it for a profit is going to be frowned apon. This would make you a dealer.
You do not need to be in the state of your residence to sell a gun. A C&R holder can buy a C&R gun whatever state you are in as long as the states involved recognize the C&R. New Jersey does not I think. Probably some other states and cities. You have to ship to an FFL holder as NJ will not allow a resident to hold a C&R.
Jerry Burney

Edward Tinker · 10-16-2007, 12:02 AM

You are completely legal to sell any C&R, provided it is for upgrading your collection. there is a fine line there, are you constantly buying and selling?

Sellling here and there is okay, be aware of state laws.

Ed

10-16-2007, 02:41 PM

No, I am not constantly selling. But need to sell once in a while just to upgrade. My understanding that is that anyone without a c and r license can not sell a pistol or rifle in an out of state gun show. I have used my C and R to buy at the Tulsa gun show (I live in Texas). Since I am allowed to sell and ship to someone out of state with a C and R, It would seem to me I could also do it in person since we both have a C and R. So I am still confused.

lew1 · 10-16-2007, 03:18 PM

If you both have C&R licenses, I would think that a transfer is permitted. I would have no hesitation is receiving a C&R pistol when I was out of state. whether it be from a non-licensed individual or a C&R license holder.
.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-16-2007, 05:09 PM

Richard, If you are still confused, dig out all the paperwork that came with your C&R and read thru it. Sounds like it would do you good. Actually we should all do it every once in awhile.
Jerry Burney

10-16-2007, 06:05 PM

I talked with BATF in San Antonio and was told no probem to sell at an out of state gun show as long as the other person has a license and it is a C and R gun. To sell to a resident of the same state without license, must me done in home state, not at the outof state gun show. BATF said with a C and R license I can sell a C and R rifle or shotgun to someone in another state who has no license and ship to them, but not a pistol. This seems odd to me but seems to be true.

lugerholsterrepair · 10-16-2007, 06:10 PM

Do not necessarily believe what is told to you by an Agent. Some of them do not know their own regulations. Find it in writing on the BATF site if you want to really be sure. Jerry Burney

lew1 · 10-16-2007, 08:02 PM

Jerry is right. The agents try to give good information, but like all, are human and subject to mistakes.

Read the law and the regs, and if any quesions, send them in writing to your local ATF office.

10-16-2007, 08:25 PM

I believe that paragraph 478.99 states that I cannot sell to someone with out a license in another state, then states this "shall not apply to the sale or delivery of a rifle or shotgun(curiio or relic). However provisions of par 478.96 must be met. I think that paragraph say that a fomr 4473 must be complete by the chief law enforcement officer. I am open to any comments that might clear this up. But in the long run, I think I will sell only to C and R license holder to keep it simple

Lugerdoc · 10-17-2007, 10:22 AM

It is my understanding that if you sell a C&R pistol at an out of state show, a C&R holder can take it with them, but you must ship it from your "licensed premesis" to an FFL holder or thru an FFL holder for sale to a non-licensed individual of another state. TH

10-17-2007, 12:03 PM

Yes, that is my understanding also. But for example you sell a C and R rifle on GunBroker to someone out of state, I think you have to get the from signed by the chief law enforcement officer, or otherwise how would you know the buy is of age and not a criminal.

lew1 · 10-17-2007, 12:30 PM

Have to require that it be shipped to a C&R license or an 01 license.

Sales of long guns can be made to residents of other states only if delivery is in your (sellers) state. If it is sold to a non-resident and delivered ou of state, it has to go to a license.

SS109 · 11-07-2007, 05:58 PM

I buy curio guns at gun shows w/o doing the background check. I do make sure it is a dealer to dealer sale.

10-15-2007, 10:44 PM	#1
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	Use of C and R License at Gun Show I have a C and R license and I am a resident of Texas. If I take a C and R gun to a gun show in another state, can I put the gun on a table for sale if I tag it as can only be sold to anther C and R holder or a holder of a regular gun dealer license?

10-15-2007, 10:55 PM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Richard, You are setting up a complicated scenario. To sell a gun you do not need a C&R . You need one to BUY a gun. A C&R is not a liscence to sell guns, only to buy them. It is meant to build a collection. There is little mention in the regs about selling guns. You cannot be a dealer. Buying a gun and turning around and selling it for a profit is going to be frowned apon. This would make you a dealer. You do not need to be in the state of your residence to sell a gun. A C&R holder can buy a C&R gun whatever state you are in as long as the states involved recognize the C&R. New Jersey does not I think. Probably some other states and cities. You have to ship to an FFL holder as NJ will not allow a resident to hold a C&R. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-16-2007, 12:02 AM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	You are completely legal to sell any C&R, provided it is for upgrading your collection. there is a fine line there, are you constantly buying and selling? Sellling here and there is okay, be aware of state laws. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-16-2007, 03:18 PM	#5
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	If you both have C&R licenses, I would think that a transfer is permitted. I would have no hesitation is receiving a C&R pistol when I was out of state. whether it be from a non-licensed individual or a C&R license holder. . __________________ charlie

10-16-2007, 05:09 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Richard, If you are still confused, dig out all the paperwork that came with your C&R and read thru it. Sounds like it would do you good. Actually we should all do it every once in awhile. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-16-2007, 02:41 PM	#4
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	No, I am not constantly selling. But need to sell once in a while just to upgrade. My understanding that is that anyone without a c and r license can not sell a pistol or rifle in an out of state gun show. I have used my C and R to buy at the Tulsa gun show (I live in Texas). Since I am allowed to sell and ship to someone out of state with a C and R, It would seem to me I could also do it in person since we both have a C and R. So I am still confused.

10-16-2007, 06:05 PM	#7
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	I talked with BATF in San Antonio and was told no probem to sell at an out of state gun show as long as the other person has a license and it is a C and R gun. To sell to a resident of the same state without license, must me done in home state, not at the outof state gun show. BATF said with a C and R license I can sell a C and R rifle or shotgun to someone in another state who has no license and ship to them, but not a pistol. This seems odd to me but seems to be true.

10-16-2007, 06:10 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Do not necessarily believe what is told to you by an Agent. Some of them do not know their own regulations. Find it in writing on the BATF site if you want to really be sure. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-16-2007, 08:02 PM	#9
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	Jerry is right. The agents try to give good information, but like all, are human and subject to mistakes. Read the law and the regs, and if any quesions, send them in writing to your local ATF office. __________________ charlie

10-16-2007, 08:25 PM	#10
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	I believe that paragraph 478.99 states that I cannot sell to someone with out a license in another state, then states this "shall not apply to the sale or delivery of a rifle or shotgun(curiio or relic). However provisions of par 478.96 must be met. I think that paragraph say that a fomr 4473 must be complete by the chief law enforcement officer. I am open to any comments that might clear this up. But in the long run, I think I will sell only to C and R license holder to keep it simple

10-17-2007, 10:22 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	It is my understanding that if you sell a C&R pistol at an out of state show, a C&R holder can take it with them, but you must ship it from your "licensed premesis" to an FFL holder or thru an FFL holder for sale to a non-licensed individual of another state. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-17-2007, 12:03 PM	#12
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	Yes, that is my understanding also. But for example you sell a C and R rifle on GunBroker to someone out of state, I think you have to get the from signed by the chief law enforcement officer, or otherwise how would you know the buy is of age and not a criminal.

10-17-2007, 12:30 PM	#13
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	Have to require that it be shipped to a C&R license or an 01 license. Sales of long guns can be made to residents of other states only if delivery is in your (sellers) state. If it is sold to a non-resident and delivered ou of state, it has to go to a license. __________________ charlie

11-07-2007, 05:58 PM	#14
SS109 User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Jefferson, CO Posts: 56 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I buy curio guns at gun shows w/o doing the background check. I do make sure it is a dealer to dealer sale. __________________ 1916 LP08 1923 9mm P08 Commercial Import 1920 .30 Luger Commercial