DWM logo on chamber

Wilhelm · 10-15-2007, 09:57 PM

Alright everyone. This is my first post here so forgive my ignorance! I have a heavily reworked luger with what I am sure is NIL collector value but I would like to find out what I can about it. When it was refinished almost all of the original markings were removed from the sides of the slide. The only one that is faintly visible is on the right front and it appears to be a lion (?) standing on his on his hind legs. The chamber has the dwm logo and it was not ground down. the toggle also has the dwm logo unmolested and the breechblock has the military proof on it. I assume the extractor was marked geladen but the word has been milled away. The barrel is marked on the bottom with a mark I have never seen. It is only a partial stamping. What is visible is a half circle with the letter "K" over an "o" or "0". numbers on small parts were either struck out with a horizontal line or left alone. The serial number was removed completely and restamped "1". Nothing else....just "1". The grips are pretty cheaply molded black plastic. It has the lug for a shoulder stock and the usual safety marked "Gesichert". It was marked with the importer stamp on the bottom of the barrel (century arms) and for once they made it small and unintrusive. From the above description it sounds pretty crappy but it is actually kin of pretty. Where it was ground it was done well and left smooth and the reblue is a nice, even, shiny black. As I said, I'm under no illusions as to its' value but I would just like to know what I'm shooting. I would post photos but I'm a technoidiot! Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also it has lots of little marks here and there so just tell me what to look for and I'll see what's what. Thanks in advance and sorry for rambling on!

Edward Tinker · 10-15-2007, 10:00 PM

sounds like a shooter

well done, be careful or you'll get one and then another and another...

Welcome to the forum!

pictures would be helpful, but you know you have a DWM and that narrows it down about 10-14 years

(it isn't a mauser, so is older than 1934 or thereabouts)

Ed

Wilhelm · 10-15-2007, 10:03 PM

This is my second one and I've had it for a couple of years.....I've alway wondered about it. My first was a VOPO I bought back in college....It never jams! When did they mark the chamber with the dwm logo. Also, the barrel is 3.25 from the muzzle to the front of the slide. You need a phd in these things to REALLY know what you are looking at and DEEP pockets to get the really cool stuff but they're ALL fun! Thanks for the welcome!!

Ron Wood · 10-15-2007, 10:34 PM

Well, it appears that you have a very mixed Luger! The receiver is a 1908 Bulgarian, the remainder of the gun could be anything for the next 20 years after 1913.

Pete Ebbink · 10-15-2007, 10:34 PM

Bulgarian P08...???...

Wilhelm · 10-15-2007, 10:45 PM

WoW! that's pretty neat! 1908......man how the world was different then! That's what I love about these things....history you can hold in your hand! I need to get my honey to take some pictures so I can post them. Yes, I'm sure it is pretty mixed up....wonder who refinished it?

Just looked at the bulgarian crest online. I would agree that the lion on my slide is nearly identical to the right lion from the crest. Funny thing is...my barrel is in 9mm.

Wilhelm · 10-16-2007, 12:13 AM

Alright. I just took the thing apart. I did the rub and sniff test on the grips and they are black bakelite. It appears I have three pistols made into one with God knows what for a barrel. The slide is numbered on the bottom of the takedown lug "96" as is the striker release. Ejector is not numbered. As I said, DWM logo on chamber and lion on right side. Left side it stamped "1". Toggle has DWM logo. Front and rear parts of toggle stamped "98" as is breechblock and striker. German military proof on breechblock. Extractor is not numbered on top and I didn't remove it to check the sides. Geladen has been milled off. Striker follower not marked. Numbered parts on the frame are trigger, sideplate, safety and safety lever. All stamper "31" Sideplate 31 was struck through with one horizontal mark. Takedown lever has had number removed and renumbered "1". All marks removed from front of frame and renumbered "1". Presumably original number was xx31. Axle pin is unnumbered and judging from lathe turning marks was never numbered. That's about it. Any chance this thing was a 1920's rework of some kind? I think I paid $350 for it and hopefully I didn't get rooked!! As before, thanks for any imput!

Ron Wood · 10-16-2007, 01:38 AM

The Model 1908 Bulgarian, purchased by Bulgaria in 1910 and 1911, was 9mm. The 1900 and 1906 Bulgarians were 7.65mm but many were converted to 9mm after the purchase of the 1908 model. The 1908 Bulgarian is one of the more interesting and unusual variations. It had the DWM logo on the chamber rather than the toggle; the toggle was marked with the lion in shield simplified version of the Bulgarian crest; and the lanyard loop was moved from the back of the frame to the bottom of the grip. The "rampant lion" of the Bulgarian crest was used in miniature as the proof.

Wilhelm · 10-16-2007, 11:51 AM

Thanks for the information Ron! Any ideas about when it might have been reworked? The serial 1 seems weird to me.

10-15-2007, 09:57 PM	#1
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	DWM logo on chamber Alright everyone. This is my first post here so forgive my ignorance! I have a heavily reworked luger with what I am sure is NIL collector value but I would like to find out what I can about it. When it was refinished almost all of the original markings were removed from the sides of the slide. The only one that is faintly visible is on the right front and it appears to be a lion (?) standing on his on his hind legs. The chamber has the dwm logo and it was not ground down. the toggle also has the dwm logo unmolested and the breechblock has the military proof on it. I assume the extractor was marked geladen but the word has been milled away. The barrel is marked on the bottom with a mark I have never seen. It is only a partial stamping. What is visible is a half circle with the letter "K" over an "o" or "0". numbers on small parts were either struck out with a horizontal line or left alone. The serial number was removed completely and restamped "1". Nothing else....just "1". The grips are pretty cheaply molded black plastic. It has the lug for a shoulder stock and the usual safety marked "Gesichert". It was marked with the importer stamp on the bottom of the barrel (century arms) and for once they made it small and unintrusive. From the above description it sounds pretty crappy but it is actually kin of pretty. Where it was ground it was done well and left smooth and the reblue is a nice, even, shiny black. As I said, I'm under no illusions as to its' value but I would just like to know what I'm shooting. I would post photos but I'm a technoidiot! Any thoughts would be appreciated. Also it has lots of little marks here and there so just tell me what to look for and I'll see what's what. Thanks in advance and sorry for rambling on!

10-15-2007, 10:00 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	sounds like a shooter well done, be careful or you'll get one and then another and another... Welcome to the forum! pictures would be helpful, but you know you have a DWM and that narrows it down about 10-14 years (it isn't a mauser, so is older than 1934 or thereabouts) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-15-2007, 10:03 PM	#3
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	This is my second one and I've had it for a couple of years.....I've alway wondered about it. My first was a VOPO I bought back in college....It never jams! When did they mark the chamber with the dwm logo. Also, the barrel is 3.25 from the muzzle to the front of the slide. You need a phd in these things to REALLY know what you are looking at and DEEP pockets to get the really cool stuff but they're ALL fun! Thanks for the welcome!! __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

10-15-2007, 10:34 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Well, it appears that you have a very mixed Luger! The receiver is a 1908 Bulgarian, the remainder of the gun could be anything for the next 20 years after 1913. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-15-2007, 10:45 PM	#6
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	WoW! that's pretty neat! 1908......man how the world was different then! That's what I love about these things....history you can hold in your hand! I need to get my honey to take some pictures so I can post them. Yes, I'm sure it is pretty mixed up....wonder who refinished it? Just looked at the bulgarian crest online. I would agree that the lion on my slide is nearly identical to the right lion from the crest. Funny thing is...my barrel is in 9mm. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

10-15-2007, 10:34 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Bulgarian P08...???...

10-16-2007, 12:13 AM	#7
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	Alright. I just took the thing apart. I did the rub and sniff test on the grips and they are black bakelite. It appears I have three pistols made into one with God knows what for a barrel. The slide is numbered on the bottom of the takedown lug "96" as is the striker release. Ejector is not numbered. As I said, DWM logo on chamber and lion on right side. Left side it stamped "1". Toggle has DWM logo. Front and rear parts of toggle stamped "98" as is breechblock and striker. German military proof on breechblock. Extractor is not numbered on top and I didn't remove it to check the sides. Geladen has been milled off. Striker follower not marked. Numbered parts on the frame are trigger, sideplate, safety and safety lever. All stamper "31" Sideplate 31 was struck through with one horizontal mark. Takedown lever has had number removed and renumbered "1". All marks removed from front of frame and renumbered "1". Presumably original number was xx31. Axle pin is unnumbered and judging from lathe turning marks was never numbered. That's about it. Any chance this thing was a 1920's rework of some kind? I think I paid $350 for it and hopefully I didn't get rooked!! As before, thanks for any imput! __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others

10-16-2007, 01:38 AM	#8
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	The Model 1908 Bulgarian, purchased by Bulgaria in 1910 and 1911, was 9mm. The 1900 and 1906 Bulgarians were 7.65mm but many were converted to 9mm after the purchase of the 1908 model. The 1908 Bulgarian is one of the more interesting and unusual variations. It had the DWM logo on the chamber rather than the toggle; the toggle was marked with the lion in shield simplified version of the Bulgarian crest; and the lanyard loop was moved from the back of the frame to the bottom of the grip. The "rampant lion" of the Bulgarian crest was used in miniature as the proof. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-16-2007, 11:51 AM	#9
Wilhelm User Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 365 Thanks: 48 Thanked 136 Times in 60 Posts	Thanks for the information Ron! Any ideas about when it might have been reworked? The serial 1 seems weird to me. __________________ translatedfrenchmanuals@yahoo.com I promise to be nice and play well with others