British proofs

Fazer · 08-22-2007, 01:30 AM

I have been offered a military luger that is all correct. It was taken to England and reproofed. Does having these proof marks do much in reducing the value of the piece. I am unsure how to view them in relation to the value.
Thanks....Chip

Dwight Gruber · 08-22-2007, 02:58 AM

Chip,

The short answer to your question is yes, to most collectors in the US British proofs devalue the Luger to a certain extent. That may or may not be the case in your neck of the woods.

In any case, it will be necessary to know the details of the gun to ascertain how much difference the Brit proofs actually make.

--Dwight

Nomadr · 08-22-2007, 09:04 AM

I just posted my British proof P.08 a few post down. But here are some better pics!

As you can see the British proof marks under the barrel do detract from the pistol. But they don't bother me as much as a US import stamp.

I have been told the smaller proofs are British "export" stamps.

For the right price I wouldn't pass up any good Luger!

Bob

Nomadr · 08-22-2007, 09:07 AM

Rear of frame. Also found on slide and toggle.

Lugerdoc · 08-22-2007, 09:53 AM

In my experience, the only collectors who will pay a decent price for BNPed lugers, are those who collect British marked pistols. TH

Dwight Gruber · 08-22-2007, 11:09 AM

Terry,

Thank you for illuminating my brief comment. It is much of what I was implying, without my having the experience to represent anyone other than US collectors.

Please allow me a couple of comments.

Like your UK perspective of British proofs being part-and-parcel of a Luger's authenticity, the GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY stamps are a US statutory requirement, and part of the accepted provenance of a Commercial Luger.

Such a marking on a non-commercial gun is cause for a minor devaluation for a US collector.

The 'Santa Veep Armory Imports Pattaquumpus Valley Massachusetts USA Inc' importer's mark represent a major defacement, and speaking for myself
(and I am sure representitive of most collectors in the US) I find a British or other foreign proof more acceptable in almost all circumstances.

--Dwight

Rod WMG · 08-22-2007, 02:10 PM

There are more than a few who have paid pretty big bucks to have the Ruger (not Luger) lawyer requirements removed from their barrels and subsequent refinishing. These things mean far more to some than others. Collectors are pretty finicky.

Rod WMG · 08-22-2007, 03:32 PM

Howdy, TAC, I think, without opening the safe, that all my Rugers have it.

I would estimate your SRH benefited from someone else having it removed?

What caliber is your SRH?...or do you know since it isn't marked?

Pete Ebbink · 08-22-2007, 03:37 PM

Bob,

The little staming is still a Brit proof stamp...for either the London or Birmingham proof house.

Am away from my books but can look it up for you if others do not jump in...before the weekend.

Rod WMG · 08-22-2007, 04:50 PM

No Christmas card??? Oh, woe is this one!

My thousands of handguns experience would have made me think it was in .480 Ruger or 454 Casull, but you'll notice how restrained I was in asking before speculating--I'm that kind of guy.

A custom barrel made to your specs, eh? Congratulations. As us ole time Texans say, "Bet she shoots like a house afire!" I take it this one hasn't been deactivated from what you've written.

Dwight Gruber · 08-22-2007, 07:19 PM

Terry,

No disrespect noted, my friend. Just a bit of clarification.

--Dwight

Nomadr · 08-22-2007, 07:58 PM

Tac,
Thank you for the clarification! I may have misunderstood the answer?
Would not have been the first time!

Pete,
yes I would appreciate that.
Thank you for your effort

Bob

pipeman45 · 08-22-2007, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley

So don't let a few historical stamps, usually very small, get in the way of you buying a piece of real history. We don't have the comfort of a market with many thousands of Lugers in it, like our American friends do, and may therefore have to be a little less picky in what we end up with.

tac

I totally agree with you on this one tac.
The 38S&W Victory model that resides in my safe does so BECAUSE of the British prof marks. It has a well worn finish, but perfect mechanicals. It was the history of the piece that interested me. I just wish that thing could talk!

tenbears · 08-22-2007, 11:46 PM

I dont have a problem at all with British proof marks on Lugers or old American pistols. Matter of fact I would love to have a Colt 1911 with RAF unit marks.

Rod WMG · 08-24-2007, 03:47 AM

tac, thanks for the clarification. I have had to be away from the pewter for awhile and couldn't respond.

Rod WMG · 08-24-2007, 11:14 AM

You know, pard, I've given it some thought and I may have asked you the same question about that beeyouteaful Ruger a year or two back.

I have no memory anymore, I'm sad to say.

08-22-2007, 01:30 AM	#1
Fazer Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Perth, West Oz Posts: 93 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	British proofs I have been offered a military luger that is all correct. It was taken to England and reproofed. Does having these proof marks do much in reducing the value of the piece. I am unsure how to view them in relation to the value. Thanks....Chip

08-22-2007, 09:04 AM	#3
Nomadr Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 276 Thanks: 16 Thanked 28 Times in 22 Posts	British Proofs I just posted my British proof P.08 a few post down. But here are some better pics! As you can see the British proof marks under the barrel do detract from the pistol. But they don't bother me as much as a US import stamp. I have been told the smaller proofs are British "export" stamps. For the right price I wouldn't pass up any good Luger! Bob Attached Images

08-22-2007, 09:07 AM	#4
Nomadr Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 276 Thanks: 16 Thanked 28 Times in 22 Posts	Export proof Rear of frame. Also found on slide and toggle. Attached Images

08-22-2007, 09:53 AM	#5
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	In my experience, the only collectors who will pay a decent price for BNPed lugers, are those who collect British marked pistols. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-22-2007, 02:58 AM	#2
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Chip, The short answer to your question is yes, to most collectors in the US British proofs devalue the Luger to a certain extent. That may or may not be the case in your neck of the woods. In any case, it will be necessary to know the details of the gun to ascertain how much difference the Brit proofs actually make. --Dwight

08-22-2007, 11:09 AM	#6
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Terry, Thank you for illuminating my brief comment. It is much of what I was implying, without my having the experience to represent anyone other than US collectors. Please allow me a couple of comments. Like your UK perspective of British proofs being part-and-parcel of a Luger's authenticity, the GERMANY and MADE IN GERMANY stamps are a US statutory requirement, and part of the accepted provenance of a Commercial Luger. Such a marking on a non-commercial gun is cause for a minor devaluation for a US collector. The 'Santa Veep Armory Imports Pattaquumpus Valley Massachusetts USA Inc' importer's mark represent a major defacement, and speaking for myself (and I am sure representitive of most collectors in the US) I find a British or other foreign proof more acceptable in almost all circumstances. --Dwight

08-22-2007, 02:10 PM	#7
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	There are more than a few who have paid pretty big bucks to have the Ruger (not Luger) lawyer requirements removed from their barrels and subsequent refinishing. These things mean far more to some than others. Collectors are pretty finicky.

08-22-2007, 03:32 PM	#8
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Howdy, TAC, I think, without opening the safe, that all my Rugers have it. I would estimate your SRH benefited from someone else having it removed? What caliber is your SRH?...or do you know since it isn't marked?

08-22-2007, 03:37 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Bob, The little staming is still a Brit proof stamp...for either the London or Birmingham proof house. Am away from my books but can look it up for you if others do not jump in...before the weekend.

08-22-2007, 04:50 PM	#10
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No Christmas card??? Oh, woe is this one! My thousands of handguns experience would have made me think it was in .480 Ruger or 454 Casull, but you'll notice how restrained I was in asking before speculating--I'm that kind of guy. A custom barrel made to your specs, eh? Congratulations. As us ole time Texans say, "Bet she shoots like a house afire!" I take it this one hasn't been deactivated from what you've written.

08-22-2007, 07:19 PM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Terry, No disrespect noted, my friend. Just a bit of clarification. --Dwight

08-22-2007, 07:58 PM	#12
Nomadr Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 276 Thanks: 16 Thanked 28 Times in 22 Posts	Tac, Thank you for the clarification! I may have misunderstood the answer? Would not have been the first time! Pete, yes I would appreciate that. Thank you for your effort Bob

08-22-2007, 11:46 PM	#14
tenbears User Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 370 Thanks: 3 Thanked 26 Times in 15 Posts	I dont have a problem at all with British proof marks on Lugers or old American pistols. Matter of fact I would love to have a Colt 1911 with RAF unit marks.

08-24-2007, 03:47 AM	#15
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	tac, thanks for the clarification. I have had to be away from the pewter for awhile and couldn't respond.

08-24-2007, 11:14 AM	#16
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You know, pard, I've given it some thought and I may have asked you the same question about that beeyouteaful Ruger a year or two back. I have no memory anymore, I'm sad to say.