Tool

Pete Ebbink · 08-12-2007, 12:25 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

What do you guys think...???...

Navy · 08-12-2007, 01:34 PM

Absolutely bogus.

Tom A

drbuster · 08-12-2007, 01:59 PM

Why do you say that, Tom, is it because the Crown and the M are touching?

Ron Wood · 08-12-2007, 04:59 PM

Look at the "shadow line" above and to the left of the crown. The mark was struck at an angle such that the left side of the impression is deeper than the right. In so doing, the fabricator revealed the flaw in a repro stamp. On a real stamp, the marking surface flows smoothly from the taper of the shank. On a repro stamp, there is a ridge around the characters of the stamp, so if you stamp it too deep or cockeyed the ridge shows up. I am sure this flaw will soon be fixed, but it is too late for this tool.

drbuster · 08-12-2007, 10:36 PM

Thanks for the reply Ron. The fact that the Crown sits on the M doesn't bother you a bit also?

Ron Wood · 08-12-2007, 11:55 PM

No, that part is OK...in fact, it should sit on the M.

drbuster · 08-13-2007, 08:50 PM

Thanks Ron. Always appreciate your fine "show and tell " pictures!

Pete Ebbink · 08-14-2007, 11:25 AM

A nudder one to ponder :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

lew1 · 08-14-2007, 01:51 PM

The seller seems familiar

drbuster · 08-14-2007, 08:13 PM

I see a dye impression at the upper left hand corner of the "M". Is this a flag that this tool is "repro" stamped as well?

lew1 · 08-14-2007, 08:17 PM

Knowing the seller, I do not believe that he would intentionally sell a repo as original.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-14-2007, 08:31 PM

Herb, That appears to be part of the tooling marks evident on the face to me rather than a die impression. That and the Anchor M looks just as it should on a Weimar tool. This is a very nice authentic tool in my opinion...Jerry Burney

Ron Wood · 08-14-2007, 08:37 PM

The die impression of a repro marking will closely follow the contours of the mark. The blemish on this tool is just incidental. A repro impression is much more obvious.

laoshi75 · 08-15-2007, 03:16 AM

thank you Charles !
I ended my auction, this tool is not available now. I will send it to an american Friend of mine, member of this forum..

thank you Gentlemen !

larry · 08-17-2007, 10:15 AM

Okay guys, what have I learned here? As a novice Navy guy that only has one un-collectable grade Navy I see that even experienced Navy guys have differing opinions so what is a novice to do? Stay away from any expensive Lugers and their accessories?
larry

Tim Reynolds · 08-17-2007, 02:11 PM

If it requires someone else to tell you if it's right or wrong.Don't buy it.All Navy Lugers are collectable,but some are more collectable than others

Edward Tinker · 08-17-2007, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by larry
Okay guys, what have I learned here? As a novice Navy guy that only has one un-collectable grade Navy I see that even experienced Navy guys have differing opinions so what is a novice to do? Stay away from any expensive Lugers and their accessories?
larry

hard to say. I have made some mistakes in collecting, sometimes buying "too soon", sometimes buying something that was not as "collectable".

I used to feel that certain fields of lugers are simply too expensive to buy in, such as Krieghoff's (I finally bought a low end one after researching them), Navy's (I finally bought a low-end one after being offered one for a good price), and Simson's (I bought one from my good friend Howard, researched a lot, then bought a few more... and then researched a lot). My point is, that research is really important for these specialized lugggggers...

Dante Di Pietro Jr. · 08-19-2007, 07:02 AM

The crown M stamp looks to be slightly double struck not a fake die stamp with border ridge. I hope you guys are wrong because Im the sucker who bought it.
Dante

drbuster · 08-19-2007, 09:39 AM

Larry, the tool marking is just one Navy "pothole" you can fall into. At the recent Reno show a discussion ensued about the wide flanged rear toggle pin. Most of the folks agreed that the wide flange started to appear with the 1908 Navy and extended through the 1918 Navy. Thus, the 1906 Navy luger has a narrow rear toggle flange. Some folks insisted that ALL Navy lugers were made with the narrow flange and the wide flange was added as a factory retrofit to strengthen the area. I have no idea how they came up with this idea. I feel that the narrow flange on a later than 1906 Navy makes the gun suspect.

Tim Reynolds · 08-19-2007, 09:54 AM

Why would the Navy be the only Luger type modified with a wide flange.All the models of Lugers were subject to the same amount of gas pressure when fired,ie using (9mm bullet).It was the only wide flange Luger was'nt it?

08-12-2007, 12:25 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Tool http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1 What do you guys think...???...

08-12-2007, 04:59 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Look at the "shadow line" above and to the left of the crown. The mark was struck at an angle such that the left side of the impression is deeper than the right. In so doing, the fabricator revealed the flaw in a repro stamp. On a real stamp, the marking surface flows smoothly from the taper of the shank. On a repro stamp, there is a ridge around the characters of the stamp, so if you stamp it too deep or cockeyed the ridge shows up. I am sure this flaw will soon be fixed, but it is too late for this tool. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-12-2007, 11:55 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	No, that part is OK...in fact, it should sit on the M. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-14-2007, 01:51 PM	#9
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	The seller seems familiar __________________ charlie

08-14-2007, 08:17 PM	#11
lew1 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 1,108 Thanks: 82 Thanked 204 Times in 112 Posts	Knowing the seller, I do not believe that he would intentionally sell a repo as original. __________________ charlie

08-12-2007, 01:34 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Absolutely bogus. Tom A

08-12-2007, 01:59 PM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Why do you say that, Tom, is it because the Crown and the M are touching?

08-12-2007, 10:36 PM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks for the reply Ron. The fact that the Crown sits on the M doesn't bother you a bit also?

08-13-2007, 08:50 PM	#7
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks Ron. Always appreciate your fine "show and tell " pictures!

08-14-2007, 11:25 AM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	A nudder one to ponder : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

08-14-2007, 08:13 PM	#10
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	I see a dye impression at the upper left hand corner of the "M". Is this a flag that this tool is "repro" stamped as well?

08-14-2007, 08:31 PM	#12
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Herb, That appears to be part of the tooling marks evident on the face to me rather than a die impression. That and the Anchor M looks just as it should on a Weimar tool. This is a very nice authentic tool in my opinion...Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-14-2007, 08:37 PM	#13
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	The die impression of a repro marking will closely follow the contours of the mark. The blemish on this tool is just incidental. A repro impression is much more obvious. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-15-2007, 03:16 AM	#14
laoshi75 User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Thailand/France Posts: 491 Thanks: 288 Thanked 98 Times in 42 Posts	thank you Charles ! I ended my auction, this tool is not available now. I will send it to an american Friend of mine, member of this forum.. thank you Gentlemen !

08-17-2007, 10:15 AM	#15
larry User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 106 Thanks: 26 Thanked 15 Times in 8 Posts	Confused Okay guys, what have I learned here? As a novice Navy guy that only has one un-collectable grade Navy I see that even experienced Navy guys have differing opinions so what is a novice to do? Stay away from any expensive Lugers and their accessories? larry

08-17-2007, 02:11 PM	#16
Tim Reynolds User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	If it requires someone else to tell you if it's right or wrong.Don't buy it.All Navy Lugers are collectable,but some are more collectable than others __________________ If the magazine does not match,it is a mismatched Luger

08-19-2007, 07:02 AM	#18
Dante Di Pietro Jr. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Maine Posts: 73 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The crown M stamp looks to be slightly double struck not a fake die stamp with border ridge. I hope you guys are wrong because Im the sucker who bought it. Dante

08-19-2007, 09:39 AM	#19
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Larry, the tool marking is just one Navy "pothole" you can fall into. At the recent Reno show a discussion ensued about the wide flanged rear toggle pin. Most of the folks agreed that the wide flange started to appear with the 1908 Navy and extended through the 1918 Navy. Thus, the 1906 Navy luger has a narrow rear toggle flange. Some folks insisted that ALL Navy lugers were made with the narrow flange and the wide flange was added as a factory retrofit to strengthen the area. I have no idea how they came up with this idea. I feel that the narrow flange on a later than 1906 Navy makes the gun suspect.

08-19-2007, 09:54 AM	#20
Tim Reynolds User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Navy flange Why would the Navy be the only Luger type modified with a wide flange.All the models of Lugers were subject to the same amount of gas pressure when fired,ie using (9mm bullet).It was the only wide flange Luger was'nt it? __________________ If the magazine does not match,it is a mismatched Luger