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cliffdropover1 · 08-12-2007, 09:22 PM

Ok, I am new to the forum and just bought an artillery model. It is dated 1917 and then there is a slash mark next to the 17 and the date 20 after that. The 20 is larger than the 17. Does this mean an arsenal rework? (All the numbers match) and thanks in advance to any collectors with helpful information.

Edward Tinker · 08-12-2007, 09:27 PM

Cliff welcome to the forum. I am assuming it looks like this 1917/20

If so, it is usually not a rework, but that the receiver was used by the factory. However, 1917 would be an odd year to have used or reused a receiver, as there were lots of them made in 1918 and the war ended.

I am also assuming it is also a DWM??

So, I think it more likely a 1920 property stamping...

Can you provide pictures, close ups and full left and full right?

Ed

cliffdropover1 · 08-12-2007, 09:40 PM

Thanks for the help. I will try to get pictures up later.

Pete Ebbink · 08-12-2007, 10:19 PM

Cliff,

Another theory about the "1917/20" is that the gun could have assembled in 1920 with parts from 1917...

Edward Tinker · 08-12-2007, 10:26 PM

Pete, I hinted at that, but a 1917/18 makes sense, a 1917/20 doesn't make sense to me...

cliffdropover1 · 08-13-2007, 05:12 PM

Ok, here are the photos. I hope. The gun is DWM. I was told that the grips are not the original and the firing pin is not numbered. All other parts do match.

Dwight Gruber · 08-13-2007, 05:48 PM

Remember this discussion http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...+twodate+Luger The pictures have unfortunately passed beyond the rim. This is certainly still on Jan Still's Forum, along with some pertinent discussion of the 19xx/20 stamp.

Several of these have shown up, usually stamped 1918/20 iirc, both on the Forums and in Auto Mag. It has been speculated that these are post-WWI assembly from parts, and that the pertinent date stamping regulation was followed as though these were intended for government use. Don't know that any of the reports were of LP-08s, all my info on these is filed away right now.

--Dwight

Pete Ebbink · 08-13-2007, 06:41 PM

Link to Dwight's contribution over on Jan Still's gun boards :

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp...ms=double+date

Dwight,

Towards the bottom of this other discussion topic, Charlie Wagner posted up photos of a LP-08 with the 1917/20 chamber stamping.

http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp...ms=double+date

(Based on the unique dent on the left side of the wooden grip and the fact that this gun which opened the discussion thread and the gun Charlie had posted photos BOTH have "49" as their last 2-digits...my guess is that it is the same LP-08. The dent in the metal of the left side panel is the same as well.)

Close-up of the dent in the wood on Cliff's gun :

Close-up of the dent in the wood on Charlie's gun :

cliffdropover1 · 08-13-2007, 07:17 PM

I cannot get to the above mentioned discussion. What does all this mean about the dent etc.?

cliffdropover1 · 08-13-2007, 07:29 PM

Ok. I was able to read the discussion about this gun on Gunboards. Just what does all this mean? I guess what I really want to know is the approximate value of this gun.

And, how do I post an actual picture on this forum instead of a link?

George Anderson · 08-13-2007, 10:20 PM

Ckiff, I would venture to say that your artillery is a 1917 military issue that was Weimar property stamped with the addition of slash and the digits "20". First it's just a gut feeling given the crude way in which "/20" was added. The 1917/18 guns that are known display a factory quality in the manner in which the /18 is added. Further evidence can be found in the serial number.

Although you don't give the number up, one of the above attached threads seems to show a serial number in the "c" block. If this is the case then the pistol was made early in 1917 and as such is quite unlikely to be a late year unfinished gun

Pete Ebbink · 08-13-2007, 10:33 PM

Cliff,

A dent in wood or in metal is sometimes like a fingerprint...

When I saw your 1917/20 with its dents and "49" numbering...and then I searched the other forum for other "double date" Luger discussions...that LP-08 showed up...

When I started looking at that gun and your gun, it seems very likely they are one in the same gun...

I also wanted folks to learn from the work Dwight did about the 19xx/20 stampings...

Edward Tinker · 08-13-2007, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cliffdropover1

And, how do I post an actual picture on this forum instead of a link?

2 ways to do this; 1. AFTER you post the link, go back in and edit your own message, where it says url, delete it and write img

2. Instead of posting the url (link) to the Post Reply area, click on the IMG, then paste your url in the little box that comes up. That allows the program to put the [img] and the [/img ] for you.

ed

PS; I am leaning towards the 1917 being refurbed by the factory and date stamped /20...

cliffdropover1 · 08-14-2007, 05:49 PM

Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. I think I have a nice Luger here. I hesitate to say what I payed for it, but I sure would like to know what you think this one is worth? I do NOT plan to sell it.

Pete Ebbink · 08-14-2007, 06:12 PM

Cliff,

The folks at FGS have a 1917/1920 double date arty in 95% ORIGINAL finish for an asking price of $ 2850.

It is the 4th. one down on this FGS web site page :

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo_2.html

As yours might be a Weimar-period re-do, I think that would lower your gun's value somewhat...i.e. not having the original Imperial-era factory finish.

My WAG on price...$ 2250 or so...(others can tell me I am all wrong...)...if your gun is all factory original finish, then maybe $ 2500 or so...???

If your gun has some "bubba" re-bluing, then down to $ 1500-1600 or so.

George Anderson · 08-14-2007, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Edward Tinker
PS; I am leaning towards the 1917 being refurbed by the factory and date stamped /20...

Ed, take note of the fact that the pistol does not appear to have been refinished. The serial number stampings that should have a "halo" do. Also the crude manner in which the "/20" is stamped. The latter also shows signs of having been stamped through the bluing.

cliffdropover1 · 08-14-2007, 10:58 PM

Looks like a got a good deal. Shoots well too.

08-12-2007, 09:22 PM	#1
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	New to Forum Ok, I am new to the forum and just bought an artillery model. It is dated 1917 and then there is a slash mark next to the 17 and the date 20 after that. The 20 is larger than the 17. Does this mean an arsenal rework? (All the numbers match) and thanks in advance to any collectors with helpful information.

08-12-2007, 09:27 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Cliff welcome to the forum. I am assuming it looks like this 1917/20 If so, it is usually not a rework, but that the receiver was used by the factory. However, 1917 would be an odd year to have used or reused a receiver, as there were lots of them made in 1918 and the war ended. I am also assuming it is also a DWM?? So, I think it more likely a 1920 property stamping... Can you provide pictures, close ups and full left and full right? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-12-2007, 10:26 PM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Pete, I hinted at that, but a 1917/18 makes sense, a 1917/20 doesn't make sense to me... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-12-2007, 09:40 PM	#3
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks for the help. I will try to get pictures up later.

08-12-2007, 10:19 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Cliff, Another theory about the "1917/20" is that the gun could have assembled in 1920 with parts from 1917...

08-13-2007, 05:12 PM	#6
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Ok, here are the photos. I hope. The gun is DWM. I was told that the grips are not the original and the firing pin is not numbered. All other parts do match.

08-13-2007, 05:48 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Remember this discussion http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...+twodate+Luger The pictures have unfortunately passed beyond the rim. This is certainly still on Jan Still's Forum, along with some pertinent discussion of the 19xx/20 stamp. Several of these have shown up, usually stamped 1918/20 iirc, both on the Forums and in Auto Mag. It has been speculated that these are post-WWI assembly from parts, and that the pertinent date stamping regulation was followed as though these were intended for government use. Don't know that any of the reports were of LP-08s, all my info on these is filed away right now. --Dwight

08-13-2007, 06:41 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Link to Dwight's contribution over on Jan Still's gun boards : http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp...ms=double+date Dwight, Towards the bottom of this other discussion topic, Charlie Wagner posted up photos of a LP-08 with the 1917/20 chamber stamping. http://luger.gunboards.com/topic.asp...ms=double+date (Based on the unique dent on the left side of the wooden grip and the fact that this gun which opened the discussion thread and the gun Charlie had posted photos BOTH have "49" as their last 2-digits...my guess is that it is the same LP-08. The dent in the metal of the left side panel is the same as well.) Close-up of the dent in the wood on Cliff's gun : Close-up of the dent in the wood on Charlie's gun :

08-13-2007, 07:17 PM	#9
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	I cannot get to the above mentioned discussion. What does all this mean about the dent etc.?

08-13-2007, 07:29 PM	#10
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Ok. I was able to read the discussion about this gun on Gunboards. Just what does all this mean? I guess what I really want to know is the approximate value of this gun. And, how do I post an actual picture on this forum instead of a link?

08-13-2007, 10:20 PM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Ckiff, I would venture to say that your artillery is a 1917 military issue that was Weimar property stamped with the addition of slash and the digits "20". First it's just a gut feeling given the crude way in which "/20" was added. The 1917/18 guns that are known display a factory quality in the manner in which the /18 is added. Further evidence can be found in the serial number. Although you don't give the number up, one of the above attached threads seems to show a serial number in the "c" block. If this is the case then the pistol was made early in 1917 and as such is quite unlikely to be a late year unfinished gun

08-13-2007, 10:33 PM	#12
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Cliff, A dent in wood or in metal is sometimes like a fingerprint... When I saw your 1917/20 with its dents and "49" numbering...and then I searched the other forum for other "double date" Luger discussions...that LP-08 showed up... When I started looking at that gun and your gun, it seems very likely they are one in the same gun... I also wanted folks to learn from the work Dwight did about the 19xx/20 stampings...

08-14-2007, 05:49 PM	#14
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks for all the help. I really appreciate it. I think I have a nice Luger here. I hesitate to say what I payed for it, but I sure would like to know what you think this one is worth? I do NOT plan to sell it.

08-14-2007, 06:12 PM	#15
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Cliff, The folks at FGS have a 1917/1920 double date arty in 95% ORIGINAL finish for an asking price of $ 2850. It is the 4th. one down on this FGS web site page : http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo_2.html As yours might be a Weimar-period re-do, I think that would lower your gun's value somewhat...i.e. not having the original Imperial-era factory finish. My WAG on price...$ 2250 or so...(others can tell me I am all wrong...)...if your gun is all factory original finish, then maybe $ 2500 or so...??? If your gun has some "bubba" re-bluing, then down to $ 1500-1600 or so.

08-14-2007, 10:58 PM	#17
cliffdropover1 User Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Kentucky Posts: 65 Thanks: 1 Thanked 9 Times in 5 Posts	Looks like a got a good deal. Shoots well too.