Problem in reassembly of S/42 Luger

[Hoyt Weathers]

To Lugerdoc: I do not know of a good gunsmith experienced in Lugers.
If you can suggest one of the best, please send me a PM with the info.

ahab@hiwaay.net

Regards,
Hoyt Weathers

[Hoyt Weathers]

To all Repliers:

I have not yet taken the pictures some of you want to see. Inshallah, I will try to do that today.

I have looked closely at the barrel lug and the front of the frame where the barrel lug should go through but it does not get that far back on the frame before the rearward movement begins to exhibit resistance. I plan to take several pictures of both the barrel lug and the notch on the front end of the frame where the barrel lug should go. As I said the barrel never gets that far back.

Neither of those parts show any bare or bright areas where the Russian dip blue is affected. They are as black as the Ace of Spades on all surfaces.

I intend to take a steel ruler and measure for flatness all along the top of the receiver. With the receiver clamped in a vice, I will level it. Then I will check from one end of the frame to the other end with the level for any movement of the bubble in the level.

It is my present opinion that there was a problem even before I used brute force to get the barrel group out of the frame. Otherwise, why did the barrel group stick in the first place?

My conclusion, at this time, is that my use of brute force had nothing to do with the sticking problem.

Regards to "All in this house"

Hoyt Weathers

[LugerVern]

Hoyt

Look for a bur on the right of your upper receiver, where you used your punch, this has expanded the metal in that area, this is most likely now hanging up on your lower frame ( ears) .
Explaining why itâ??s come to a dead stop and wonâ??t budge any further.

This is a different issue than your first one, but should be easily fixed.

Vern

[Hoyt Weathers]

Hello Vern.

I trust you opinion and I appreciate you comments. However, AFAIK, I have only one problem with the Luger. It has not changed whatsoever. (there may be other problems of which I am not aware.)The barrel group hangs up about one inch or so into the front of the frame.
Something is causing this to happen. I just do now know what that is.

As for your "should be easily fixed", just suggest how should I do that.

Regards,
Hoyt Weathers

[LugerVern]

Hoyt

Your description of what is going on with your gun keeps changing, it makes it impossible to trouble shoot. Some things that were said: â??stops about 1.5 inches from where it should goâ?�
; â??assembly only lacked 3/8" of going togetherâ?� and now â??hangs up about one inch or so into the front of the frameâ?�. These describe completely different problems.

The fact that your gun was fully functional before disassembly gives hope, most things are in fact fixable, but I feel your not being totally honest with what has happen to your gun. Without pictures and with confusing statements no one is going to be able to help you.

At this point I default back to the other forum members.

Good Luck!

Vern

[Bob G]

It really sounds as if the effort to re straw some of the parts has had quite a bit to do with the original problem. He states that after the re straw attempt, the pistol would go back to about 3/8ths of an inch before jamming up. He may have applied too much force to try to push the bbl.-receiver back into battery. After it became immovable he applied a hammer and punch(CRINGE) and now the major problem is it will not go anywhere near the original position. After the re straw effort, it sounds as if the receiver lug may have been hitting the take down lever?

[Hoyt Weathers]

To all Repliers:

If I stated things differently at different times, that was not intensional. Some of those distances were only estimates at that time based only on off-hand memory.

I now have my Electronic Digital Caliper and the Luger in my lap.

The distance of the barrel lug from the front of the frame where it (the barrel group)
first meets resistance = 0.455 inches or 11.55 mm. The barrel lug does not appear to have hit anything. There is not a mark on it.

It is my intent to measure everything I can and report the results. That will take some time to do correctly. Hang in here with me guys.

I do not have a Luger gunsmith anywhere near me as far as I know.

You guys are my only hope to get this worked out.

Since there is a message length maximum, I am concerned how to get the measurement info to you guys. I can do it one reading at a time (1 through ? ) to avoid that potential problem.

Your comments are most welcomed.

Regards,
Hoyt Weathers

[Edward Tinker]

Hoyt, the message length is in charectors, and is something like 8 or 10 thousand, so that should not be a problem...


Ed

[Hoyt Weathers]

To Edward Tinker:

I do not understand you reply.

Please send to me a PM at:

ahab@hiwaay.net.

[Hoyt Weathers]

To Edward Tinker:

I did not correctly read your reply. I now understand what you said.

I did not know that a message could as many characters as you said.
I just checked the message length of this message.
The result is that it said: "The maximum permitted length is 20000 characters."

Once I get all of the measurements in a logical order, I plan to post those results here.
"Nothing ventured is nothing gained"

Regards,
Hoyt

[Hoyt Weathers]

To all repliers:

Stop me before I do something dumb.

Note: I have Ian Skinnerton's Handbook which just arrived today.

My objective is to remove the Russian dip blue but not what is below the dip blue.

Present sattus:

Frame frame and barrel: They both have been cleaned with gloves and Acetone.

Barrel: All parts are out which can be removed except the front site. I have inserted cork stoppers in each end of the barrel.

Frame: I have used suitable gloves and Acetone with cotton wool to remove any oil from all parts of the frame and barrel group. I used Q-tips dipped in Acetone to get into those tiny places such as the grooves which had some gun oil in both the barrel group and the frame group.

Barrel:
I have not swabbed the bore. I used cork stoppers to plug each end. I have used Acetone and Q-tips to swab the grooves in the barrel group and the frame group.
The firing pin has been removed and the Russian dip blue is on it also.
I think the firing pin should be in the white, but I am not sure about this.

I am ready for the parts to go into the vinegar for no more than 30 minutes.

I will NOT put anything into the vinegar until ALL of you guys say "Good to Go" or the equivalent.

Questions:

I. Am I ready for all parts to go into the vinegar not to exceed 30 minutes.

2. Caution comments will be addressed and fully resolved before I go further.

Regards,
Hoyt

[Hoyt Weathers]

To all repliers:

Stop me before I do something dumb.

Note: I have Ian Skinnerton's Handbook which just arrived today.

My objective is to remove the Russian dip blue but not what is below the dip blue.

Present sattus:

Frame frame and barrel: They both have been cleaned with gloves and Acetone.

Barrel: All parts are out which can be removed except the front site. I have inserted cork stoppers in each end of the barrel.

Frame: I have used suitable gloves and Acetone with cotton wool to remove any oil from all parts of the frame and barrel group. I used Q-tips dipped in Acetone to get into those tiny places such as the grooves which had some gun oil in both the barrel group and the frame group.

Barrel:
I have not swabbed the bore. I used cork stoppers to plug each end. I have used Acetone and Q-tips to swab the grooves in the barrel group and the frame group.
The firing pin has been removed and the Russian dip blue is on it also.
I think the firing pin should be in the white, but I am not sure about this.

I am ready for the parts to go into the vinegar for no more than 30 minutes.

I will NOT put anything into the vinegar until ALL of you guys say "Good to Go" or the equivalent.

Questions:

I. Am I ready for all parts to go into the vinegar not to exceed 30 minutes?

2. Caution comments will be addressed and fully resolved before I go further.

Regards,
Hoyt

[Lugerdoc]

Hoyt, I would suggest fixing any mechanical problems, before fussing with the finish. Had you not stated that all small parts had been removed, I would have suggested that you check that the ejector (in right receiver) is correctly installed and not rubbing against the rear of the frame, when it reachs that point. TH

[LugerVern]

I know I am going to hate myself for getting back into this:

Hoyt

1) Did you put your lower receiver in a vice, when you were trying to separate your parts?

If Not:

1) Your rails on your upper receiver are damaged
2) Your rails on your lower receiver are damaged
3) You have a sprung upper receiver.
4) You have twisted your receiver or frame.


Because it would be obvious if your rails are damaged (to you) because we still donâ??t have pictures? I will address the sprung upper receiver. A slightly sprung upper can function perfectly when in the gun but on removal will expand and not allow easy reassembly. Compress your upper slightly and try to fit your two halfâ??s together, I stress slightly!

I donâ??t now about this idea of removing the dip blue? I think your getting ready to be seriously disappointed. But I have never owned a Russian dipper so I am out of my area. What are you going to do if thereâ??s nothing underneath?

Is there anyone on the forum who has done this successfully and been pleased with the results?

If you have a twisted receiver or frame, its gunsmith time- period. Or you need to sale your gun and start again.

Good Luck

Vern

[Pete Ebbink]

This previous discussion had some info. from Orv about dip-blue removal on guns (probably in P38 context...) :

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthre...p+blue+removal

[Hoyt Weathers]

To LugerVern:

Background info: I used a shooters bench vice with padded areas fore and aft. They are adjustable to grip whatever I put into them.

Status of the Luger before going into the vise:
The barrel assembly would go almost into battery, but not all the way. I could not pull the barrel assembly out with my two hands.

Then using the vise, I did something really dumb. I used a metal punch backwards against the left rear of the frame and stuck the small end of the punch with a metal hammer. I now agree with several members that what I did probably warped the frame. I do not know a way to un-do what I did even if that is even possible. I do not have access to a local Luger gunsmith.

I am willing to ship the Luger parts to a Luger gunsmith if I knew of one.

I hereby request the PM addresses of one or more good Luger gunsmiths.

Regards,
Hoyt Weathers

[LugerVern]

Hoyt

I am sorry; I didnâ??t read your earlier post with your measurements that you tookâ?� .455 inches from the frame to the barrel lugâ?� , BTW this is your fourth change in what is going on with your luger and the left side of the frame is your number 5 change.

I am going back to what I told you before, there is a bur on your right/left upper receiver near the rails, and this is hanging up on your frame at that point. My guess is that you caused this with your hammer and punch or maybe caused it to get worse. I believe your original problem was the stuck barrel lug.

I am out of here but, with all my heart wish you luck!

This has been an interesting post!

Vern

[Steinar]

Hoyt, if you like, I can post the you sent me here. I know there are some sharp eyes here that might see something that missed my eyes.. Just let me know.

[Lugerdoc]

Hoyt, Sounds like a problem that will take some time and expense to correct. You probably don't want to spend the $50/HR, that it would take to correct this/these problems. TH