Model 1921 misssing in action.

February 8, 2001 a model 1921 chrome luger serial number 3611 with DMW engraved on the top slide was stolen from my residence in Chandler AZ. It belonged to my father who picked it up in North Africa during the war. I hope whom ever has it shoots himself in the foot or another vital area. I could use a little help in setting a "replacement" cost for the insurance co. ? Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

[Frank]

Hello Jim!! I sure am sorry about the loss of the Luger. I would like to help you, but I am not familiar with the 1921 designation. Do you have any pictures of the pistol that shows some details. What caliber was it, 9mm or .30 Caliber (7.65mm)? It could be a WWI Luger or it could be a post WWI Commercial. Both would have a DWM on the toggle.


Was the pistol chrome plated by your Father or was it like that when it was captured? Do you have capture papers?


I am sure with as much information as you could possibly give us, would allow the Forum to give you an idea of it's value.

All chrome plated lugers were plated after arrival here in the US and it was not captured with chrome-plating on it.


Because there is not a model 1921 luger, I suspect that is the date on the chamber but I could be wrong. Regardless of the model of luger, a chrome-plated luger would have a value from $350 to $400 depending on bore condition and the condition of the magazine (the magazine, if not chromed, would be a valuable item and worth perhaps $100). The grips, if unaltered original walnut grips, would have some value, too. The luger has value as a shooting pistol at $300 or more depending on mechanical and bore condition.

Frank , I have done some digging and here is what I have come up with, Caliber 9MM.The toggle was marked DMW and if my memory is correct, the top chamber marking was Portuguese Naval Marking. Mac: if your reading this, There were no capture papers. I have letters written for my father by his supervisors in the aicraft company he worked for stating that the weapon was in his possesion prior to that requirement.(I will check the dates of correspondence)To my knowledge the luger has always been chrome for as long as I can remember.(at least in 1955 in Dahran Saudi Arabia). We didn't return to the states til 1961. The Fire Arms permit to allow him to carry the wweapon in India listed the weapon as model 1921. All Serial numbers matched, on all parts (3611 or 11) and the clip also. I can not remember if there was a proof mark, though I'm looking at various marks to see if something sticks in my memory.The Grips were checkered walnut (I think) painted black and worn through to the wood beneath. Barrel length was 4 inches. It had a hold open device on the last round. There was a marking under the safety lever that began with a B... some like borschadt ???? I'll keep digging and racking my memory.... I had not had it out in a long time, but as many times as I'd cleaned it, you'd think something would stick in my mind...Many thanks for the help from you both. look foward to hearing back from you, Jim Kochan

Here is some additional info: I have a letter dated october 30, 1943 to one Lt. Langerman, Security Officer,83rd Air Depot from Walter.E. Beck Rep. Liaison, M.E. Projects #4 Midan Tewfik, Cairo, Egypt. He states that the " 1915 Luger " was in my fathers possesion between two and three months before Pearl Harbor." in an additional letter dated November 6 1943, the luger is described as a model 1925 but there is a change in pen on the letter which looks like 1915. however later in the letterThe "model 1921" is hereby returned".... hope this helps a little.

[Frank]

Jim, is it possible that you can get a copy of a reference book "Lugers at Random" by Charlie Kenyon? He has a pretty complete photo history of the Luger, including photos of the Portuguese Navy Lugers (both Royal and Republic) This may jog your memory. If it is either one of these it is more valuable than the garden variety 1915 Military DWM (not DMW). Then you might try to find a copy of "The Luger Handbook" by Aaron Davis to get an idea of value.


The thing that will through a monkeywrench in the soup is the fact it was chromed (not a good thing, as mac pointed out)


Keep trying to remember as much as possible.

HI!


Yes, I am reading the message. It is a tough luger to identify as the model/date information changes from document to document. The Portug. Navy identification may place it in the realm of the very very obscure/rare contract or personal piece. Interestingly, the editor of National Geographic is reported to have owned a Portuguese luger for many years. DWM made a lot of small contract runs and this could be one of those. Pictures and more data may be necessary. Very few pistols were chromed before 1945. Some guns were nickle plated but the materials and process associated with chrome did not see widespread application till used on automobiles in, I believe the late 20's early 30's. I know of no lugers that were manufactured with chrome finish and had DWM or Mauser (who made some contract lugers with DWM stamped on the toggle) applied chrome, more guns would have received the treatment.


All chrome lugers I know of were chromed in the US after WW2 to pretty them up into decorative pieces. The gun may have come to your father chromed but was likely chromed long after it was manufactured and probably by a US owner.


Even if it is a contract piece, a removal of the chrome surface and replacement of bluing plus, probably, grips replacement or restoration, would be needed to give the pistol a value much above $450.


I hope no criticism or inappropriate meaning was or is received with my evaluation. I am only trying to be as helpful as I can in providing identification and valuation information. I also admit to having difficulty identifying the type luger given the information. Regardless, I feel the value is driven largely by the finish--an uncommon situation except in instances of chroming, replaced parts or other significant change from original manufactured condition.


Congratulations on having a luger! They are amazing pieces of history!


David

Some of the comments you make hint at a Bulgarian luger. Under the safety are cyrillic letters for "safe" that might look like the word you describe. Artistically elaborate, regal chamber designs are found on both Portuguese and Bulgarian contract lugers.


More data is needed.

mac

[BILL]

Well, he HAD a Luger. I have seen some nickel plate that was hard to tell from chrome but it is possible that somebody had a Luger plated prior to WWII. I also doubt that it was done at the factory. It would be interesting to really know if there was ever a special order for a nickel plated Luger (since there were nickel plated pistols common in the US in the twenties and thirties). It is unfortunate that someone would steal someone's property but it happens all too often. A fair value for a plated Luger would most likely be in the shooter range ($350-450). Photographs are probably the best thing to have to show a knowledgeable insurance agent. I have never heard of anyone getting the total value of a firearm unless it is documented and insured as such. A homeowner's policy doesn't usually cover much in the line of incidental pistols that happen to disappear (what a bad thought). A safe is a great investment. They pay for themselves in more ways than one.

oh no! I forgot that this was a stolen luger. I am sorry I forgot about this unfortunate event. I hope I did not offend. I also hope the luger turns up soon without having beeninvolved in any criminal activity. A family heirloom, even if it has been chromed, has a personal attachment that is hard to value.


I agree that the value probably falls in the $350-450 range provided it is mechanically sound.


Dave

The only documented factory plated lugers were made by Kreighoff for presentation to Hitler, Goering & Speer and are pictured in Harry Jones' "Luger Variations". All others, I suspect were plated by either the retired soldat, the GI who retreived it in trade for a pack of cigarettes in post war Germany, or the importer as you suggest.

Thank you for all the input guys. After doing the research here at the luger forum, I'm Positve it was a Portugese Navy luger. I remember that there were other marks on it , but after scanning the proof marks I found here, they all seem to run together. I know from the letters that my father had the luger in his posession prior to Pearl Harbor. He brought it over to Cairo/Alexandria when he worked for Curtis Aircraft in North Africa.One would think that as part of the identifcation that they would have mentioned the finish if is was nickle or chrome, since that was an uncommon finish for a firearm of the time. However, it has had the finish for as long as my father had it. He said that it had alwasy been ....nickled?..could be i don't have an eye for it unless they're side by side. It seems logical that a seaman however might have had it plated for the protection from a corrosive eviroment....any thoughts? As always your comments are welcome. I have a slim hope that a picture may exist if my friend and shooting partner in OR comes through. We had a Photo biz in CA about 12 yrs ago and may have used it as a prop or in a test shoot for our Porfolio....keeping my fingers crossed. thanks one and all .