i need proof

bobpotter · 04-19-2007, 12:12 AM

My dad's one friend has a 1938 p-08 Lugar. It has two serial numbers printed on it. One is on the barrel and one on the body. The one on the body has an X in it. We were told that this pistol is registered to Dr. Josef Mingele, the Angel of Death. Does anyone have any idea where I could if the serial number matches. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ida-Alp · 04-19-2007, 12:26 AM

This one should be fun.

waltherguy · 04-19-2007, 12:31 AM

Bob, sounds like a mis-matched "Luger" that was "Russian Captured/refinished" hence the "X" I can't fathom how this would have any ties to Dr. Mangele whatsoever.

Luke · 04-19-2007, 02:09 AM

Bob,

Welcome to the Luger Forum. As Reggie (waltherguy) above comments, those guns captured by the Russians often had a crude "X" drawn through the serial number on the side of the receiver. I have a 1937 like that.

Assuming the serial number on the barrel is different, this gun probably had a replacement barrel added at some point.

Without further information it would appear this is probably a mismatched "shooter" Luger having little collector value. The probability of ownership by Dr. Josef Mangele is highly remote. Many such fanciful stories, almost all fiction, have been connected with different German pistols, mostly Lugers, from time to time.

If you can post pictures of the gun the experts here could probably give you a little more information on its likely history.

Good luck.
Luke

Steinar · 04-19-2007, 05:07 AM

GÃ?Â¶ring, Hitler, Mengele and the Pope himself must have received several large shipments of Lugers each. Perhaps a new bulk every week or so..
Sometimes the manufacturer also took the time to write their names with nice modern golden letters, so that's no doubt to whom they belong.

Lugers origin is often revealed under a late night poker game.. as one friend to another

True or not.. I don't think anyone here can give any proof of the story. All Luger are nice and well made pistols, worth keeping. Eighter for shooting or collection.

Any pictures of the gun?

Vlim · 04-19-2007, 06:35 AM

The bugger was called "Mengele" and the chance that this pistol belonged to him is virtually zero. Just as large as the chance that you'll ever find out who the gun was issued to in the first place.

Sounds to me you have a mismatched East-German VoPo. Pictures will help to identify your gun.

bobpotter · 04-19-2007, 08:03 AM

Thank you all for your comments. I will see if i can get some good pictures with detail. Also, the x isn't through the serial number, but at the end of it. Barrel has 8823 and body has 8823X. Thanks again.

redbear · 04-19-2007, 09:09 AM

Just a thought... but... Mengele was a scientist and Doctor whow as in charge of "medical research' at an extermination camp... why would he need a pistol? he had soldiers he could boss around to do the dirty work!!!

Pics are a must!

Quentin · 04-19-2007, 09:25 AM

In regard to crossed out serial numbers, I have a shooter with a 1938 barrel and receiver both originally numbered 213. But on the receiver 213 is overstruck with something that looks like this: /</<. Above the overstruck SN# a new number 4162 has been added.

Does this sound like a Russian capture? Why would anyone bother to assign a new SN#? Or did the Russians assign a block of numbers to captured weapons to make inventory easier for them?

Not trying to hijaak your thread Bob, just interested in that twist that was mentioned earlier. Hope to see pictures of yours!

Ron Smith · 04-19-2007, 09:27 AM

Joe,

Mengele was an "SS Bottom Feeder", who just happened to have a medical degree. He would wear a pistol as a status symbol and part of the uniform, whether he ever pulled the trigger or not.

I seriously doubt that there is any way to connect any Luger to his possession.

Steinar · 04-19-2007, 09:41 AM

Wish he was brought to justice when he got caught..

Fishpaw1 · 04-19-2007, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Morgan Kane
Wish he was brought to justice when he got caught..

Well, he was never caught, so that might have been the problem. According to reports, he drowned in a swimming accident in Brazil.

Steinar · 04-19-2007, 01:24 PM

hmm.. if I remember right, he put on a regular uniform and blended in with the privates. Later to be released by the Amercan army as the snake he was.. I might be mixing him up with someone else

Tomathvl · 04-19-2007, 03:58 PM

Bobpotter,
Welcome to the forum. Lugers were marked in series of 10,000 with a serial number and a small letter that is part of the serial number. Generally, the frame will have both the number and letter and the barrel will have just the number. However IAW Jan Still's third Reich Lugers x is not a listed letter for 1938; it should fall between b and n. 1937 and 1939 can have x's but not a 1938. Post a photo as suggested and maybe we can identify the letter. Regarding the Mengele connection, most likely someone is pulling your chain or trying to con you.
Tom

bobpotter · 04-19-2007, 04:31 PM

The first batch of pics didn't show hardly any detail. So the current owner of the gun, who is a doctor, is going to use one of the high quality cams at the hospital he works at to get me the detailed pics so I can post them here. I will post them as soon as the email arrives.

thegundude · 04-19-2007, 09:22 PM

I can't wait...

Photography of firearms is one of my favorite hobbies. I just bought a new camera, a Canon Rebel DSLR and plan to reshoot all of my collection. I need to set up some kind of stage appropriate for gun photography and adaptable enough for accessories and rifles.

It'll be a hoot! Let me know if you'd like any digital photography pointers. There are a few of us here that take such an interest seriously.

Also, I hope you've given up an hope of this gun actually belonging to anyone famous. It's just so unlikely as to be impossible...

{Old camera pic}

Steinar · 04-20-2007, 01:56 AM

thegundude; I have the same camera. Only differense is that it's called canon 400d outside the US and is in black. If you haveing some sort of problems with your new camera, I can try to help you the best I can to get started.

bobpotter · 04-22-2007, 09:16 PM

Here they are.

Tomathvl · 04-23-2007, 08:16 AM

The serial number is 8832 e and the X on the frame serial number means it's a Russian capture. The grips are not original to the gun and the photos make the finish look two tone which if actually how it looks is not original. The barrel bottom has an import mark. Whomever it was that told you that this gun belonged to the doctor of death probably sells bridges in his spare time. Total bull $hit.
Tom

Vlim · 04-23-2007, 09:01 AM

Yep,

This gun has the typical cheap plastic grips and the familiar X-capture mark found on Russian surplus capture guns that were sold from Russian storage in the late 1990s.

It's in not too bad a condition and can be restored to make a nice shooter. Some good quality Nill Grips and a decent blue job and this gun looks like new.

04-19-2007, 12:12 AM	#1
bobpotter User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	i need proof My dad's one friend has a 1938 p-08 Lugar. It has two serial numbers printed on it. One is on the barrel and one on the body. The one on the body has an X in it. We were told that this pistol is registered to Dr. Josef Mingele, the Angel of Death. Does anyone have any idea where I could if the serial number matches. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

04-19-2007, 12:31 AM	#3
waltherguy User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: FL Posts: 201 Thanks: 5 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bob, sounds like a mis-matched "Luger" that was "Russian Captured/refinished" hence the "X" I can't fathom how this would have any ties to Dr. Mangele whatsoever. __________________ "In a man to man fight the winner is the one who puts an extra round in his magazine" -Field Marshal Erwin Rommel

04-19-2007, 02:09 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Bob, Welcome to the Luger Forum. As Reggie (waltherguy) above comments, those guns captured by the Russians often had a crude "X" drawn through the serial number on the side of the receiver. I have a 1937 like that. Assuming the serial number on the barrel is different, this gun probably had a replacement barrel added at some point. Without further information it would appear this is probably a mismatched "shooter" Luger having little collector value. The probability of ownership by Dr. Josef Mangele is highly remote. Many such fanciful stories, almost all fiction, have been connected with different German pistols, mostly Lugers, from time to time. If you can post pictures of the gun the experts here could probably give you a little more information on its likely history. Good luck. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-19-2007, 05:07 AM	#5
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	GÃ?Â¶ring, Hitler, Mengele and the Pope himself must have received several large shipments of Lugers each. Perhaps a new bulk every week or so.. Sometimes the manufacturer also took the time to write their names with nice modern golden letters, so that's no doubt to whom they belong. Lugers origin is often revealed under a late night poker game.. as one friend to another True or not.. I don't think anyone here can give any proof of the story. All Luger are nice and well made pistols, worth keeping. Eighter for shooting or collection. Any pictures of the gun? __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

04-19-2007, 08:03 AM	#7
bobpotter User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	thank you Thank you all for your comments. I will see if i can get some good pictures with detail. Also, the x isn't through the serial number, but at the end of it. Barrel has 8823 and body has 8823X. Thanks again.

04-19-2007, 12:26 AM	#2
Ida-Alp Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Nampa ID Posts: 116 Thanks: 81 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	This one should be fun.

04-19-2007, 06:35 AM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	The bugger was called "Mengele" and the chance that this pistol belonged to him is virtually zero. Just as large as the chance that you'll ever find out who the gun was issued to in the first place. Sounds to me you have a mismatched East-German VoPo. Pictures will help to identify your gun.

04-19-2007, 09:09 AM	#8
redbear User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Just a thought... but... Mengele was a scientist and Doctor whow as in charge of "medical research' at an extermination camp... why would he need a pistol? he had soldiers he could boss around to do the dirty work!!! Pics are a must! __________________ There is no Justice, only the law.

04-19-2007, 09:25 AM	#9
Quentin User Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: NorthWest USA Posts: 124 Thanks: 59 Thanked 11 Times in 4 Posts	In regard to crossed out serial numbers, I have a shooter with a 1938 barrel and receiver both originally numbered 213. But on the receiver 213 is overstruck with something that looks like this: /</<. Above the overstruck SN# a new number 4162 has been added. Does this sound like a Russian capture? Why would anyone bother to assign a new SN#? Or did the Russians assign a block of numbers to captured weapons to make inventory easier for them? Not trying to hijaak your thread Bob, just interested in that twist that was mentioned earlier. Hope to see pictures of yours!

04-19-2007, 09:27 AM	#10
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Joe, Mengele was an "SS Bottom Feeder", who just happened to have a medical degree. He would wear a pistol as a status symbol and part of the uniform, whether he ever pulled the trigger or not. I seriously doubt that there is any way to connect any Luger to his possession. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

04-19-2007, 09:41 AM	#11
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	Wish he was brought to justice when he got caught.. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

04-19-2007, 01:24 PM	#13
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	hmm.. if I remember right, he put on a regular uniform and blended in with the privates. Later to be released by the Amercan army as the snake he was.. I might be mixing him up with someone else __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

04-19-2007, 03:58 PM	#14
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Bobpotter, Welcome to the forum. Lugers were marked in series of 10,000 with a serial number and a small letter that is part of the serial number. Generally, the frame will have both the number and letter and the barrel will have just the number. However IAW Jan Still's third Reich Lugers x is not a listed letter for 1938; it should fall between b and n. 1937 and 1939 can have x's but not a 1938. Post a photo as suggested and maybe we can identify the letter. Regarding the Mengele connection, most likely someone is pulling your chain or trying to con you. Tom

04-19-2007, 04:31 PM	#15
bobpotter User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	pics soon The first batch of pics didn't show hardly any detail. So the current owner of the gun, who is a doctor, is going to use one of the high quality cams at the hospital he works at to get me the detailed pics so I can post them here. I will post them as soon as the email arrives.

04-19-2007, 09:22 PM	#16
thegundude User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Western NC Posts: 1,137 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 3 Posts	I can't wait... Photography of firearms is one of my favorite hobbies. I just bought a new camera, a Canon Rebel DSLR and plan to reshoot all of my collection. I need to set up some kind of stage appropriate for gun photography and adaptable enough for accessories and rifles. It'll be a hoot! Let me know if you'd like any digital photography pointers. There are a few of us here that take such an interest seriously. Also, I hope you've given up an hope of this gun actually belonging to anyone famous. It's just so unlikely as to be impossible... {Old camera pic} __________________ Keep your knees in the breeze and your iron in the air. ~Steve

04-20-2007, 01:56 AM	#17
Steinar User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,538 Thanks: 18 Thanked 36 Times in 21 Posts	thegundude; I have the same camera. Only differense is that it's called canon 400d outside the US and is in black. If you haveing some sort of problems with your new camera, I can try to help you the best I can to get started. __________________ Previously known as Morgan Kane

04-22-2007, 09:16 PM	#18
bobpotter User Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	the pics Here they are.

04-23-2007, 08:16 AM	#19
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	The serial number is 8832 e and the X on the frame serial number means it's a Russian capture. The grips are not original to the gun and the photos make the finish look two tone which if actually how it looks is not original. The barrel bottom has an import mark. Whomever it was that told you that this gun belonged to the doctor of death probably sells bridges in his spare time. Total bull $hit. Tom

04-23-2007, 09:01 AM	#20
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Yep, This gun has the typical cheap plastic grips and the familiar X-capture mark found on Russian surplus capture guns that were sold from Russian storage in the late 1990s. It's in not too bad a condition and can be restored to make a nice shooter. Some good quality Nill Grips and a decent blue job and this gun looks like new.