Making a .45 Luger

Does anyone have any ideas on how to make a .45 Luger. I assume you need two frames to cut and weld back to make it longer. What about making it from stanless steel frames?

[policeluger]

I do not know how many members will log on with what advice, but if I were serious and had the tools to do the job, was an excellent tig welder, I would take the time and trouble to visit John Martz, I have not talked to him in years, but he would be the one to instruct you.

[Navy]

I understand that Martz gets $15K per gun...

Tom A

[Edward Tinker]

Krause makes them by hand and charges about 15K.

John Martz lugers are made by two seperate donor lugers and go for about $4 to $5 k. He is in his 80's and still doing buisness, although slowed waaay down, so I have heard...

I do not beleive making a 45 is for the faint of heart, it took John years to do so and make them function. He has to make magazines by hand, and the exactness must be amazing for them to function.

I personally want a Mart 45, but instead of making one, I'd buy one, but I am not an engineer

Ed

[policeluger]

He was asking "how to make"....not where to buy.....you are right not for the faint of heart....

[Edward Tinker]

Originally posted by policeluger
He was asking "how to make"....not where to buy.....you are right not for the faint of heart....

Very true. I specifcally wanted it to read, DON'T try, buy... So, I's dids it on porpoise

but I am not handy in that regard...

I am leaning toward a stanless steel carbine so as not to destroy two German lugers. I don't have the skills, but my best gun friend has the skills and tools, he just finished a 5/8 size gatling gun in .38 special.

[Edward Tinker]

Well, I want one too!

The gatling, the 45 luger, the...

[John Sabato]

Mr. Romo, the Principal behind Orimar Inc., who is the current manufacturer of Stainless Steel Lugers, has had a .45 caliber Luger on his drawing board (or CAD screen) for a number of years now... if HE can't easily produce one (and I understand that there are differences between making ONE and tooling up for production)... after being in the Luger manufacturing business for more than a decade or two, I don't think that making one out of two donor Stainless Steel Lugers is a job for anyone but a MASTER Machinist/Metalurgist/Engineer/Gunsmith...

Let's not forget that creating a working firearm is more than just creating parts with the appropriate dimensions and shapes... there is a lot of dangerous pressure in the receiver of a firearm, and appropriate hardness and heat-treating is required to make such a one-of-a-kind gun safe to shoot.

Your friend may have just completed a .38 Special Gattling Gun project, but I would bet that it isn't something he did over a weekend, ... he probably worked on it for months if not years, unless he was following some ready-made project plans...

That is not the same as designing one from scratch...I totally concur with PoliceLuger... this is not a job for the feint of heart...

[Dok]

You might want to touch base with Neil Keller, President of the American Pistolsmiths Guild. He has made numerous baby Lugers and at least one in .45 cal...

Kustom Ballistics .45cal Baby Luger

I'm not sure he will be willing to help you, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Dok

[Dwight Gruber]

Richard,

John Martz designed (from scratch) and perfected a Luger magazine to carry .45acp cartridges. He engineered the pistol alterations around that magazine. In addition to extending the frame, the receiver rails and toggle links must be lengthened as well. He manufactures his breechblocks from scratch.

'Tuning' such a beast to function must be an art in itself.

--Dwight

[Ron Wood]

Neil's nifty little Luger is in .45 GAP (Glock Auto Pistol), which is a Glock proprietary round with a shortened case approx. the OAL of the 9mm Parabellum, so there is no need to stretch the frame. I'm not sure if you need to hog out the mag channel a bit wider, but I do believe Neil made a new breechblock from scratch.

I understand that the .45 GAP is ballistically close enough to the standard .45 ACP that you wouldn't turn your hand for the difference.

If a .45 carbine is made from a Germany Luger, I assume I can attached a stock to it. Is that true? However if made from a stanless steel luger, I assume I cannot attached a stock or could I if I made the barrel long enough. And if that is true, how long.

[John Sabato]

To use ANY Luger that did not get issued with a stock (Artillery Lugers and Navy Lugers and Carbines) with a stock of any kind without paying the BATFE the $200 tax for making a short barreled rifle (as defined by the National Firearms Act of 1934) the barrel has to be AT LEAST 16 inches in length. Any shorter and you have to go the $200 TAX and Registration route with the BATFE. The BATFE maintains a list of the pistol/shoulderstock combinations on it's website that specifies which models are exempt.

Stainless Lugers are not manufactured with a stock lug finished, but the protrusion of metal at the bottom of the grip could be machined to complete the lug.

You can see some of the details of the process used by John Martz to make his .45 caliber Lugers in the Luger E-book by Gerard Henrotin on the Luger Mechanicals... This book is downloadable and is very inexpensive, but provides a lot of detail on the Luger design and it's history. I highly recommend it.

[Ron Wood]

Either way you go, German or stainless, if you are going to attach a stock to it, the barrel will have to be a fraction over 16 inches long, otherwise it will be classified as a short barreled rifle which is prohibited. The original German carbines are "grandfathered" because they were manufactured that way and have been exempt by the BATF as collector's items whose intrinsic monetary and historic value by and large removes them from criminal use. A modern manufacture carbine however does not have those intrinsic values, and therefore is subject to the short barreled rifle restriction.

Quick draw John beat me again!!!

[John Sabato]

It's all in the wrist Ron! I just pushed the post button while you were still drafting a response...

[Pete Ebbink]

Krause's efforts in a .45 ACP luger :

I gave up on a .45 luger. My friend is making a 9mm carbine with a 16 1/4 inch barrel. It is now has a barrel and functions with 158 gr rounds. He is making a carbine sight from a bar of steel. The gatling gun he made took about two years (no kit, just a drawing).

[Alx]

There was a gentleman at a gunshow here in Nashville, who made a Luger in .45 out of two German P08's. I looked it over carefully and it was a thing of wonder. Home-made magazine, from scratch. The chamber was milled to .45 but lower and not on its original center, and the firing pin was also off center, to accomodate the larger round.
Although it looked "normal" in most all ways, everything changes with the longer and fatter round, and the toggle train has to be longer too.
He told me that there was one problem with the gun he made, and it would not operate properly as it is, without further work. He said the toggle joint was not past center and would not stay locked up before its frame ramps impact, so that it was a blow-back situation, opening the toggle too soon after detonation. Why he had not yet re-worked it , I can't say, because it would have been relatively easy to file down the bottom of the toggle where it rests on the receiver to where it was past center, but he had just left it as is, as of then.

[Lugerdoc]

Making a luger frame for .45acp is the easy part, compared to reengineering the toggle and recoil assemblies to operate correctly. TH