What is this worth?

thypentacle · 01-05-2007, 10:20 AM

Hi, newb here... hehe... hope this is the right area to post this... I'm trying to buy something but since I'm a complete idiot in what what is worth and such... would appreciate any help on this PLEASE.

Item desc.:

An interesting Luger. Originally 7.65 mm, converted to 9 mm. Brought back from Germany by a soldier who had it professionally plated in gold and I think nickel. It's very nicely done, in the manner of a presentation piece. Not a shoddy plating job on a beater gun. (NOTE: Gold plating is not on main body of the gun but just some of the smaller parts. Trigger, extractor, etc...)

Gun is marked "288" and all the numbered parts, except the magazine, are marked "88". See the photo of the front of the grip frame, which is marked "SP. Bn. 2021" with "335" crossed out. I don't know what that means, but if someone has an idea, I'd be interested to know. Unfortunately, the soldier who gave it to the current owner didn't tell him much about the gun.

The wood grips are sharp. I don't know enough about Lugers to know if they're original.

The crown "N" proof remains clear on the left side, just aft of the barrel. Magazine has an eagle proof.

Very clean inside and out. Remains in excellent condition after being reworked, and would be quite suitable for display. It is part of a 40+ year collection of fine quality guns that I am selling on consignment.

More I found out in email communications:

Gun has been test fired one time and works great. Bore is OK, item is not so perfect as one wouldn't want to fire it but still looks like a good display item.

Appreciate any input on this.

EDIT: Was also wondering if this would shoot standard 9mm bullets? Or do you need military issue to have it cycle correctly?

Don M · 01-05-2007, 10:38 AM

M.W.,

I emailed you thru GunBroker but will repeat my identification here for the benefit of others.

The grip strap marking is from the Schutzpolizei of the Free Hanseatic City of Bremen. The pistol was originally issued in 7.65 mm and marked SP.Bn.335. The police armorer probably also stamped 7,65 on the chamber to prevent confusion with other 9-mm Lugers in inventory. At some point, the pistol was re-barreled in 9 mm and the chamber mark was crossed out. The pistol probably was re-numbered at that time.

The pistol very likely has an "m" suffix beneath the serial number on the front of the frame indicating it was manufactured by DWM in 1924.

I recently issued an article on the police markings of Bremen and will be happy to email a copy to anyone who wants it. It is a .pdf file and you will need Acrobat Reader to open it.

I will let others address its value.

thypentacle · 01-05-2007, 10:41 AM

Hi there Don, I had a feeling you would be a member here too... hehe

Hope you don't mind me asking about the value and such, Im just new and want to be safe.

Have a feeling it will be grabbed up by someone with more money anyways.... :P

M.W.

Dwight Gruber · 01-05-2007, 02:03 PM

Tragic. Whoever refinished this Luger took a valuable and interesting gun and reduced it to little more than a curiosity. In my opinion if you were to pay more than about $450-$500 for this you would be paying too much.

--Dwight

thypentacle · 01-05-2007, 02:13 PM

Really? It should make a good shooter I hope at least. Does the redo really take that much value away from these?

It's currently at $600... I will of course follow through with the purchase if I win so no worries there Don. You will get payment ASAP... But, I would still like to know others views on the value of this.

Thanks for the reply,

M.W.

Pete Ebbink · 01-05-2007, 02:32 PM

The magazine is probably worth $ 100 or so.

The small parts with the "glossy" finish can easily be restrawed. That would make this shooter look a little more authentic. The grip screws s hould go back to blue, also.

Maybe $ 700 or 750 here in CA for this piece. In a retail shop, it woudl probably be priced at $ 850.

policeluger · 01-05-2007, 03:12 PM

I have the same gun SN# 6107m, the weapon # cross out is 609 and new stamp weapon # 1494....it is a real shame what this gun has gone through, still should bring a $750 + price

Big Norm · 01-05-2007, 03:14 PM

As real estate people would say in thier advertisements, location, location location. (although RE people never seem to put the location in the advertisment). Maybe in California prices are higher. I don't know. But I have to lean towards Dwight on this gun. The restoration work was shoody at best. Badly buffed and restored. To do restrawing would cost more in time and money than its worth. The gun just looks terrible. The magazine MAY have had its bottom sanded to remove the original numbers and new numbers applied. Looks like the seller wanted to put something in the gun and dug deep into his spare magazine box to find the worst that he had just to get rid of it. Unless you are just looking for something to go bang bang with, I wouldn't waste my money on it. You'll have a devil of a time trying to sell it later at any price. There are better shooters out there for $600.
Big Norm

thypentacle · 01-06-2007, 11:49 AM

Appreciate all the input on this. Values do seem to be wide on these things.

As for things costing more in CA, that sure ain't news to me... I've been there.

M.W.

Dwight Gruber · 01-06-2007, 12:16 PM

Comments in this discussion about restoring/refinishing--am I the only one who has picked up on the fact that the gun has been nickel-plated? That is the main reason for my evaluation--if it was blued It would be worth a bit more (but only a bit) in my estimation...

--Dwight

thypentacle · 01-07-2007, 11:54 AM

Maybe it's stupid but I kinda like the 'bling bling' shiny finish... lol and indeed as long as it goes 'bang bang' I'll be happy.

I did check around at several pawn shops here, we have way too many I think, but was shocked yet again. One lady down at Carl's pawn shop didn't even know what a Luger was and looked at me like I made up the gun or something, one guy at another thought $600 was way too cheap and I better be real careful buying a gun online, which he would never do, one thought it was way to expensive, one didn't know either way but did know of the gun at least, one said he wouldn't give two bucks for it cause he only buys American... other two tried to get me to buy off them and said they could get whatever I wanted from other sources for lots O cash... and told me nothing of their view of this one... car salesmen... hehe, so there is a very wide area indeed on these, at least on a local level here.

None of the shops had one for sale btw. Not counting the .22 Lugers, which NEVER sell it seems. Same ones that have been at a few of the places for two years or more... rightly so though cause those are priced too high IMO and they look sorta cheapo up close.

I did happen to mention my interest to my Aunt and apparently she knows someone who has one, but then she made a joke about the NRA slogon, "If you want my gun you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hand." So me thinks he won't be parting with that any time soon or I'd have to give him my soul to buy it.

It's getting to the point, that if I don't get this one, I'm gonna just settle for the new stainless one I've seen around on sites sorta kinda affordable at a couple places... now THAT one is very shiny. Just no history to them at ALL.

Hope things go smoothly with this and my first Luger won't, at some distant time, end up being a tale of horror and disappointment...

Thanks again guys, for the input and willingness to help.

M.W.

Hugh · 01-07-2007, 06:22 PM

I have this 1917 DWM with all matching numbers except mag that I will sell for $650 shipped. It doesn't have the white grips on it now, but has the original wood ones numbered to the gun. I will supply them or grips similar to the ones pictured. It has an excellent bore and shoots good. Will have an original mag that works.

It is not as flashy as the above gun, but doesn't look like it was even buffed before being plated. It does however have some dark peppery spots in the nickel. I can supply more detailed photos to anyone interested.

thypentacle · 01-11-2007, 10:50 AM

Well as I thought two new bidders came it at the last few hours just like ebay and it went up to $815. lol

I like the silver one above btw, though black grips would look better. Could you email me some more pics Hugh?

thypentacle@yahoo.com

I have to regroup and try to figure something out here or just wait much longer than I thought I would. :|

M.W.

01-05-2007, 10:20 AM	#1
thypentacle User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What is this worth? Hi, newb here... hehe... hope this is the right area to post this... I'm trying to buy something but since I'm a complete idiot in what what is worth and such... would appreciate any help on this PLEASE. Item desc.: An interesting Luger. Originally 7.65 mm, converted to 9 mm. Brought back from Germany by a soldier who had it professionally plated in gold and I think nickel. It's very nicely done, in the manner of a presentation piece. Not a shoddy plating job on a beater gun. (NOTE: Gold plating is not on main body of the gun but just some of the smaller parts. Trigger, extractor, etc...) Gun is marked "288" and all the numbered parts, except the magazine, are marked "88". See the photo of the front of the grip frame, which is marked "SP. Bn. 2021" with "335" crossed out. I don't know what that means, but if someone has an idea, I'd be interested to know. Unfortunately, the soldier who gave it to the current owner didn't tell him much about the gun. The wood grips are sharp. I don't know enough about Lugers to know if they're original. The crown "N" proof remains clear on the left side, just aft of the barrel. Magazine has an eagle proof. Very clean inside and out. Remains in excellent condition after being reworked, and would be quite suitable for display. It is part of a 40+ year collection of fine quality guns that I am selling on consignment. More I found out in email communications: Gun has been test fired one time and works great. Bore is OK, item is not so perfect as one wouldn't want to fire it but still looks like a good display item. Appreciate any input on this. EDIT: Was also wondering if this would shoot standard 9mm bullets? Or do you need military issue to have it cycle correctly?

01-05-2007, 10:38 AM	#2
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	M.W., I emailed you thru GunBroker but will repeat my identification here for the benefit of others. The grip strap marking is from the Schutzpolizei of the Free Hanseatic City of Bremen. The pistol was originally issued in 7.65 mm and marked SP.Bn.335. The police armorer probably also stamped 7,65 on the chamber to prevent confusion with other 9-mm Lugers in inventory. At some point, the pistol was re-barreled in 9 mm and the chamber mark was crossed out. The pistol probably was re-numbered at that time. The pistol very likely has an "m" suffix beneath the serial number on the front of the frame indicating it was manufactured by DWM in 1924. I recently issued an article on the police markings of Bremen and will be happy to email a copy to anyone who wants it. It is a .pdf file and you will need Acrobat Reader to open it. I will let others address its value. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

01-07-2007, 06:22 PM	#12
Hugh RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southeast Texas Swamp Posts: 2,460 Thanks: 2 Thanked 166 Times in 65 Posts	I have this 1917 DWM with all matching numbers except mag that I will sell for $650 shipped. It doesn't have the white grips on it now, but has the original wood ones numbered to the gun. I will supply them or grips similar to the ones pictured. It has an excellent bore and shoots good. Will have an original mag that works. It is not as flashy as the above gun, but doesn't look like it was even buffed before being plated. It does however have some dark peppery spots in the nickel. I can supply more detailed photos to anyone interested. __________________ *TRUMP FOR PREZ IN '20!*

01-05-2007, 10:41 AM	#3
thypentacle User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi there Don, I had a feeling you would be a member here too... hehe Hope you don't mind me asking about the value and such, Im just new and want to be safe. Have a feeling it will be grabbed up by someone with more money anyways.... :P M.W.

01-05-2007, 02:03 PM	#4
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Tragic. Whoever refinished this Luger took a valuable and interesting gun and reduced it to little more than a curiosity. In my opinion if you were to pay more than about $450-$500 for this you would be paying too much. --Dwight

01-05-2007, 02:13 PM	#5
thypentacle User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Really? It should make a good shooter I hope at least. Does the redo really take that much value away from these? It's currently at $600... I will of course follow through with the purchase if I win so no worries there Don. You will get payment ASAP... But, I would still like to know others views on the value of this. Thanks for the reply, M.W.

01-05-2007, 02:32 PM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	The magazine is probably worth $ 100 or so. The small parts with the "glossy" finish can easily be restrawed. That would make this shooter look a little more authentic. The grip screws s hould go back to blue, also. Maybe $ 700 or 750 here in CA for this piece. In a retail shop, it woudl probably be priced at $ 850.

01-05-2007, 03:12 PM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I have the same gun SN# 6107m, the weapon # cross out is 609 and new stamp weapon # 1494....it is a real shame what this gun has gone through, still should bring a $750 + price

01-05-2007, 03:14 PM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	As real estate people would say in thier advertisements, location, location location. (although RE people never seem to put the location in the advertisment). Maybe in California prices are higher. I don't know. But I have to lean towards Dwight on this gun. The restoration work was shoody at best. Badly buffed and restored. To do restrawing would cost more in time and money than its worth. The gun just looks terrible. The magazine MAY have had its bottom sanded to remove the original numbers and new numbers applied. Looks like the seller wanted to put something in the gun and dug deep into his spare magazine box to find the worst that he had just to get rid of it. Unless you are just looking for something to go bang bang with, I wouldn't waste my money on it. You'll have a devil of a time trying to sell it later at any price. There are better shooters out there for $600. Big Norm

01-06-2007, 11:49 AM	#9
thypentacle User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Appreciate all the input on this. Values do seem to be wide on these things. As for things costing more in CA, that sure ain't news to me... I've been there. M.W.

01-06-2007, 12:16 PM	#10
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Comments in this discussion about restoring/refinishing--am I the only one who has picked up on the fact that the gun has been nickel-plated? That is the main reason for my evaluation--if it was blued It would be worth a bit more (but only a bit) in my estimation... --Dwight

01-07-2007, 11:54 AM	#11
thypentacle User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Maybe it's stupid but I kinda like the 'bling bling' shiny finish... lol and indeed as long as it goes 'bang bang' I'll be happy. I did check around at several pawn shops here, we have way too many I think, but was shocked yet again. One lady down at Carl's pawn shop didn't even know what a Luger was and looked at me like I made up the gun or something, one guy at another thought $600 was way too cheap and I better be real careful buying a gun online, which he would never do, one thought it was way to expensive, one didn't know either way but did know of the gun at least, one said he wouldn't give two bucks for it cause he only buys American... other two tried to get me to buy off them and said they could get whatever I wanted from other sources for lots O cash... and told me nothing of their view of this one... car salesmen... hehe, so there is a very wide area indeed on these, at least on a local level here. None of the shops had one for sale btw. Not counting the .22 Lugers, which NEVER sell it seems. Same ones that have been at a few of the places for two years or more... rightly so though cause those are priced too high IMO and they look sorta cheapo up close. I did happen to mention my interest to my Aunt and apparently she knows someone who has one, but then she made a joke about the NRA slogon, "If you want my gun you'll have to pry it from my cold dead hand." So me thinks he won't be parting with that any time soon or I'd have to give him my soul to buy it. It's getting to the point, that if I don't get this one, I'm gonna just settle for the new stainless one I've seen around on sites sorta kinda affordable at a couple places... now THAT one is very shiny. Just no history to them at ALL. Hope things go smoothly with this and my first Luger won't, at some distant time, end up being a tale of horror and disappointment... Thanks again guys, for the input and willingness to help. M.W.

01-11-2007, 10:50 AM	#13
thypentacle User Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well as I thought two new bidders came it at the last few hours just like ebay and it went up to $815. lol I like the silver one above btw, though black grips would look better. Could you email me some more pics Hugh? thypentacle@yahoo.com I have to regroup and try to figure something out here or just wait much longer than I thought I would. :\| M.W.