C&R Change In CA ???

Pete Ebbink · 10-02-2006, 02:16 PM

I am seeing more and more of this message in various gun ads on the Internet.

Has something changed recently in CA laws regarding C&R's ???

" California law will NOT allow shipment of C&R handguns direct to a C&R holder in the State of California, a 01 dealer must be used. "

zinfull · 10-02-2006, 05:34 PM

Nope Always been that way. At least for the past couple of years. All hand guns must go through a 01 dealer and DROS.

Jerry

Curly1 · 10-03-2006, 08:34 PM

Same applies in New York State, gotta be shipped to a 01 then you get a receipt from the 01 to get it on yer permit then get a ticket to give to the 01 to take possesion. It's a real PITA but thats NYS for ya, we still have the preban law in affect too.

Lugerdoc · 10-10-2006, 10:41 AM

Pete, As far back as 1970 when I got my first FCL in Ca. I recall that I could go out of state and buy C&L handguns on the spot at shows, but to have one shipped in from out of state, I would have to go thru a "transfer" dealer, one with DROS forms, so that CA. would get their $15 fee. TH

75BShooter · 10-10-2006, 05:44 PM

Pete, Spoke with a local FFL who has been a tranfer agent since 1969 and he said a handgun could be shipped directly to me??? Could the regulation be such that it could be understood either way??? He said the only requirement was to register the handgun in Calif. within 30 days???
Tim

tharpo · 10-10-2006, 07:39 PM

I applied for my FFL03 7 weeks ago and as I wait for it's arrival the question,
"can a C&R Luger be sent directly to me in California if I have a FFL03", has been
perplexing. I've researched the internet and also talked to local dealers. I had
come to the conclusion that I must go through a FFL01 to make the transfer. Well, after reading this thread I decided to go straight to the source, the
Cal Dept of Justice. (Kind of like asking for directions after being lost for 2 Hours).
The call was made on 10/10/06 at 4:10pm PST. Bonnie of the DOJ straight out told me that a C&R hand gun can be sent directly to me !! I then must fill out a
C&R form #FD4100A and send it in within 30 days, with the fee of course.
A little late for me as I have already coughed up $65 to transfer my first
Luger through a FFL01 dealer.
Questions? Call the DOJ at 916-263-4887

Tom

75BShooter · 10-10-2006, 08:04 PM

Tom
Thanks for that information. I'm going to have a Luger sent directly to me. Do you know if FD4100A can be downloaded from DOJ web site?

Tim

Pete Ebbink · 10-10-2006, 08:19 PM

I am not familiar with the form FD4100A and cannot seem to find it on the CA-DOJ firearms web site...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/

There is a form FD 4010A which is used for new resident moving into CA after 1998 to register all guns you are brining into the State.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/...629510b375a951

Also, when I sell off a piece (to enhance my C&R collection), CA wants you to report that you no longer own the piece as well. That is this form FD-4036. Filing this form is free.

This form is important as if one of your guns is used in a crime, they will not come knocking on your door as you have reported it, previously, as no longer being in your C&R collection and in your possession.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/nlip.pdf

Pete Ebbink · 10-10-2006, 08:28 PM

I have sent in a written request to the CA-DOJ for clarification on this point of using a FFL-01 transfer dealer or not in CA State.

(I will plan to post a pdf-copy of such a CA-DOJ reply on the LF, for use by others if they wish.)

tharpo · 10-10-2006, 09:10 PM

I just looked for this form FD 4100A online and I can't find it either.
BTW Pete, she also said I did not need a C.O.E. to receive a firearm
directly. She says it helps to avoid the 10 day waiting period if I go
though a 01 dealer.
I think I will call Bonnie back at the DOJ tomorrow....
Tom

Pete Ebbink · 10-10-2006, 09:14 PM

Hi Tom,

You're right about the COE.

I keep both a COE and HGS current in case a nice C&R piece shows up at my local gun shops.

BTW...when you get your original C&R license at home, DO NOT sign it.

Make many blank copies of your un-signed license and then wet-sign the copies only...usually with blue ink so it appears "wet signed". Place your un-signed, original C&R in your document safe.

Also...mark your calendar ahead for renewal time. The BATF does not send you a reminder when your C&R expires in 3 years.

tharpo · 10-10-2006, 10:04 PM

Until the DOJ puts something out in writing the confusion will continue. After talking to them on the phone, the not so funny truth is that I'm still not convinced what the facts are. Will they change their tune when I call back? I think a bunch of us need to call and urge them to post the C&R regulations on their website.
Calif. DOJ 916-263-4887
Tom

zinfull · 10-11-2006, 01:34 AM

I sure hope you can pull this off. But please check this out.
http://www.calgunlaws.com/modules.ph...print&sid=122.

a lot of double talk but interesting

Jerry

tharpo · 10-11-2006, 11:57 AM

Stop the presses. After this mornings phone call to Bonnie at the DOJ she now says she is "so sorry" but she gave me the wrong information yesterday. Shipped in hand guns must go through an 01 dealer. The form 4100A is to be filled out within 5 days if the gun is physically picked up out of state and brought back to Calif. This form is not online and must be sent from them to you.
Sorry if I got anybodies hopes up.....

Pete Ebbink · 10-11-2006, 12:32 PM

" Where a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, acquires a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, outside of this state, takes actual possession of that firearm outside of this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports that firearm into this state, within five days of that licensed collector transporting that firearm into this state, he or she shall report to the department in a format prescribed by the department his or her acquisition of that firearm."

I have been doing this with the CA-DOJ for over 3 years. Bring in a C&R, either shipped or hand-carried, and within 5 days I fill out a form FD-4524A, pay $ 19 and usually in 3-5 weeks I get a nice confirming letter back from the DOJ that my C&R is now registered in my name.

Tomathvl · 10-11-2006, 02:52 PM

Pete,
By ship I assume you mean ship to yourself, right??
Tom

Pete Ebbink · 10-12-2006, 10:22 PM

Tom,

Yes to all : driving back to CA with a new gun, shipping a box to myself when I am out of state and buy it, and even when the big retail houses out of state sell me a C&R and send it my way.

My written inquiry to the CA-DOJ should resolve the matter. It certainly does not help when the staff on the phone gives conflicting answers...

Lugerdoc · 10-13-2006, 09:36 AM

Pete, Good luck getting any policy decision in writing from the Ca.DOJ. Don't hold your breath, TH

tharpo · 10-13-2006, 08:19 PM

I had the DOJ send me some forms 4100A. Here are some photos of them. Pete, Bonnie at the DOJ had no idea what form 4524A was.
Front

tharpo · 10-13-2006, 08:20 PM

Back

10-02-2006, 02:16 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	C&R Change In CA ??? I am seeing more and more of this message in various gun ads on the Internet. Has something changed recently in CA laws regarding C&R's ??? " California law will NOT allow shipment of C&R handguns direct to a C&R holder in the State of California, a 01 dealer must be used. "

10-03-2006, 08:34 PM	#3
Curly1 User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Upstate New York Posts: 1,247 Thanks: 125 Thanked 717 Times in 374 Posts	Same applies in New York State, gotta be shipped to a 01 then you get a receipt from the 01 to get it on yer permit then get a ticket to give to the 01 to take possesion. It's a real PITA but thats NYS for ya, we still have the preban law in affect too. __________________ Laugh hard and often. Gary

10-10-2006, 10:41 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Pete, As far back as 1970 when I got my first FCL in Ca. I recall that I could go out of state and buy C&L handguns on the spot at shows, but to have one shipped in from out of state, I would have to go thru a "transfer" dealer, one with DROS forms, so that CA. would get their $15 fee. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-13-2006, 09:36 AM	#18
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Pete, Good luck getting any policy decision in writing from the Ca.DOJ. Don't hold your breath, TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-13-2006, 08:19 PM	#19
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	I had the DOJ send me some forms 4100A. Here are some photos of them. Pete, Bonnie at the DOJ had no idea what form 4524A was. Front Attached Thumbnails

10-02-2006, 05:34 PM	#2
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 244 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 17 Posts	Nope Always been that way. At least for the past couple of years. All hand guns must go through a 01 dealer and DROS. Jerry

10-10-2006, 05:44 PM	#5
75BShooter User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: S.F. Bay Area Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pete, Spoke with a local FFL who has been a tranfer agent since 1969 and he said a handgun could be shipped directly to me??? Could the regulation be such that it could be understood either way??? He said the only requirement was to register the handgun in Calif. within 30 days??? Tim

10-10-2006, 07:39 PM	#6
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	I applied for my FFL03 7 weeks ago and as I wait for it's arrival the question, "can a C&R Luger be sent directly to me in California if I have a FFL03", has been perplexing. I've researched the internet and also talked to local dealers. I had come to the conclusion that I must go through a FFL01 to make the transfer. Well, after reading this thread I decided to go straight to the source, the Cal Dept of Justice. (Kind of like asking for directions after being lost for 2 Hours). The call was made on 10/10/06 at 4:10pm PST. Bonnie of the DOJ straight out told me that a C&R hand gun can be sent directly to me !! I then must fill out a C&R form #FD4100A and send it in within 30 days, with the fee of course. A little late for me as I have already coughed up $65 to transfer my first Luger through a FFL01 dealer. Questions? Call the DOJ at 916-263-4887 Tom

10-10-2006, 08:04 PM	#7
75BShooter User Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: S.F. Bay Area Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom Thanks for that information. I'm going to have a Luger sent directly to me. Do you know if FD4100A can be downloaded from DOJ web site? Tim

10-10-2006, 08:19 PM	#8
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I am not familiar with the form FD4100A and cannot seem to find it on the CA-DOJ firearms web site... http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/ There is a form FD 4010A which is used for new resident moving into CA after 1998 to register all guns you are brining into the State. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/...629510b375a951 Also, when I sell off a piece (to enhance my C&R collection), CA wants you to report that you no longer own the piece as well. That is this form FD-4036. Filing this form is free. This form is important as if one of your guns is used in a crime, they will not come knocking on your door as you have reported it, previously, as no longer being in your C&R collection and in your possession. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/nlip.pdf

10-10-2006, 08:28 PM	#9
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	I have sent in a written request to the CA-DOJ for clarification on this point of using a FFL-01 transfer dealer or not in CA State. (I will plan to post a pdf-copy of such a CA-DOJ reply on the LF, for use by others if they wish.)

10-10-2006, 09:10 PM	#10
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	I just looked for this form FD 4100A online and I can't find it either. BTW Pete, she also said I did not need a C.O.E. to receive a firearm directly. She says it helps to avoid the 10 day waiting period if I go though a 01 dealer. I think I will call Bonnie back at the DOJ tomorrow.... Tom

10-10-2006, 09:14 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Tom, You're right about the COE. I keep both a COE and HGS current in case a nice C&R piece shows up at my local gun shops. BTW...when you get your original C&R license at home, DO NOT sign it. Make many blank copies of your un-signed license and then wet-sign the copies only...usually with blue ink so it appears "wet signed". Place your un-signed, original C&R in your document safe. Also...mark your calendar ahead for renewal time. The BATF does not send you a reminder when your C&R expires in 3 years.

10-10-2006, 10:04 PM	#12
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	Until the DOJ puts something out in writing the confusion will continue. After talking to them on the phone, the not so funny truth is that I'm still not convinced what the facts are. Will they change their tune when I call back? I think a bunch of us need to call and urge them to post the C&R regulations on their website. Calif. DOJ 916-263-4887 Tom

10-11-2006, 01:34 AM	#13
zinfull Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sonoma County CA Posts: 244 Thanks: 5 Thanked 34 Times in 17 Posts	I sure hope you can pull this off. But please check this out. http://www.calgunlaws.com/modules.ph...print&sid=122. a lot of double talk but interesting Jerry

10-11-2006, 11:57 AM	#14
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	Stop the presses. After this mornings phone call to Bonnie at the DOJ she now says she is "so sorry" but she gave me the wrong information yesterday. Shipped in hand guns must go through an 01 dealer. The form 4100A is to be filled out within 5 days if the gun is physically picked up out of state and brought back to Calif. This form is not online and must be sent from them to you. Sorry if I got anybodies hopes up.....

10-11-2006, 12:32 PM	#15
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	" Where a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto, whose licensed premises are within this state, acquires a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person that is a curio or relic, as defined in Section 178.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations, outside of this state, takes actual possession of that firearm outside of this state pursuant to the provisions of subsection (j) of Section 923 of Title 18 of the United States Code, as amended by Public Law 104-208, and transports that firearm into this state, within five days of that licensed collector transporting that firearm into this state, he or she shall report to the department in a format prescribed by the department his or her acquisition of that firearm." I have been doing this with the CA-DOJ for over 3 years. Bring in a C&R, either shipped or hand-carried, and within 5 days I fill out a form FD-4524A, pay $ 19 and usually in 3-5 weeks I get a nice confirming letter back from the DOJ that my C&R is now registered in my name.

10-11-2006, 02:52 PM	#16
Tomathvl User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Milan, IN Posts: 363 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 19 Posts	Pete, By ship I assume you mean ship to yourself, right?? Tom

10-12-2006, 10:22 PM	#17
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Tom, Yes to all : driving back to CA with a new gun, shipping a box to myself when I am out of state and buy it, and even when the big retail houses out of state sell me a C&R and send it my way. My written inquiry to the CA-DOJ should resolve the matter. It certainly does not help when the staff on the phone gives conflicting answers...

10-13-2006, 08:20 PM	#20
tharpo Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: West Coast, USA Posts: 543 Thanks: 118 Thanked 383 Times in 158 Posts	Back Attached Thumbnails