1886 Winchester Line Throwing Gun

07-27-2006, 11:03 PM

A friend has a 1886 lever action Winchester line throwing gun, smooth bore, 14 1/2 barrell. It was made in 1918 and a factory letter confirms that it came from the factory this way. It is a lower serial number that any listed by BTAF as a C and R. How would he get this gun classfied as a C and R? Just write or is there a form or prcedure? And does getting it classifed as C and R elimnate all problems with it having such a short barrel?

lugerholsterrepair · 07-28-2006, 10:36 AM

Richard, Contact the ATF and ask them. They are usually helpfull. Just give no specifics as to who owns what. You don't own it. Ask them and see what they say. Then ask for specific regs to back it up. Jerry Burney

08-06-2006, 04:14 PM

I called BTAF in Martinsburg VW and was told I had to mail the gun to them. I got this answer from some one in the Import office because he was the only only I could get to talk to me. I think I need to talk to the Technical office. I find it hard to believe that that is the procedure. After 8 calls I have not found anyone else available to talk with me. Impatient in Texas.

lugerholsterrepair · 08-06-2006, 07:49 PM

Richard, There are many BATF offices around the country. Try another. They sound goofy in that office. You may also write them an Email asking for an opinion. Just indicate it's a school project or something pertaining to a history class.
You didn't really expect to get an answer out of these Govt. Idiots did you?

Have you looked on their web site?
Jerry Burney

Ron Wood · 08-06-2006, 10:32 PM

"MAIL THE GUN TO THEM"!!! How transparent is that!

1) Using the USPS to send a firearm without a FFL is going to land you a stretch in the pokey.
2) If indeed it did reach them without legal repercussions, that is the last anyone would ever see of that piece.

Patience my friend. It is a legitimate C&R, it just needs to work its way through the bureaucratic morass.

Ron Smith · 08-07-2006, 07:42 AM

Ron is correct in a certain respect. If the gun is , in their view, a class III weapon. Then they are basicly ordering you to violate a load of federal laws by telling you to mail it to them.

If it were a "legal" firearm, ie; a rifle with at least a 16" barrel, or shotgun with at least an 18" barrel. Then it is legal for a non-licensed person to ship it to a Federally Licensed recipient though the mail. If it is indeed considered a Class III, you cannot legally ship it to anyone through any carrier.

All things considered, I believe Ron is correct in that it is a Curio or Relic. I would continue to persue this discreetly through the proper channels, if you wish.

Or, since it is a smooth bore, it cannot be considered a rifle, and technically cannot be termed a shotgun. In fact, I would be temped just to let the whole thing ride, and not bring attention to it.

Just hang it on the wall and forget about it.

After dealing with these types of "Gov't Officials" for 32 years. I have found that they usually scratch their butt, smell their finger and say,... "Gee, I'm not sure. I'll get back to you."

Just my opinion...

Ron

George Anderson · 08-07-2006, 08:06 AM

Call the BATF in Atlanta and ask to speak with an agent. Don't talk to a clerk because in that office they will always put you on hold while they finish their nails.

07-27-2006, 11:03 PM	#1
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	1886 Winchester Line Throwing Gun A friend has a 1886 lever action Winchester line throwing gun, smooth bore, 14 1/2 barrell. It was made in 1918 and a factory letter confirms that it came from the factory this way. It is a lower serial number that any listed by BTAF as a C and R. How would he get this gun classfied as a C and R? Just write or is there a form or prcedure? And does getting it classifed as C and R elimnate all problems with it having such a short barrel?

07-28-2006, 10:36 AM	#2
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,866 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Richard, Contact the ATF and ask them. They are usually helpfull. Just give no specifics as to who owns what. You don't own it. Ask them and see what they say. Then ask for specific regs to back it up. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-06-2006, 07:49 PM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,866 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Richard, There are many BATF offices around the country. Try another. They sound goofy in that office. You may also write them an Email asking for an opinion. Just indicate it's a school project or something pertaining to a history class. You didn't really expect to get an answer out of these Govt. Idiots did you? Have you looked on their web site? Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-06-2006, 10:32 PM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	"MAIL THE GUN TO THEM"!!! How transparent is that! 1) Using the USPS to send a firearm without a FFL is going to land you a stretch in the pokey. 2) If indeed it did reach them without legal repercussions, that is the last anyone would ever see of that piece. Patience my friend. It is a legitimate C&R, it just needs to work its way through the bureaucratic morass. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-07-2006, 07:42 AM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Ron is correct in a certain respect. If the gun is , in their view, a class III weapon. Then they are basicly ordering you to violate a load of federal laws by telling you to mail it to them. If it were a "legal" firearm, ie; a rifle with at least a 16" barrel, or shotgun with at least an 18" barrel. Then it is legal for a non-licensed person to ship it to a Federally Licensed recipient though the mail. If it is indeed considered a Class III, you cannot legally ship it to anyone through any carrier. All things considered, I believe Ron is correct in that it is a Curio or Relic. I would continue to persue this discreetly through the proper channels, if you wish. Or, since it is a smooth bore, it cannot be considered a rifle, and technically cannot be termed a shotgun. In fact, I would be temped just to let the whole thing ride, and not bring attention to it. Just hang it on the wall and forget about it. After dealing with these types of "Gov't Officials" for 32 years. I have found that they usually scratch their butt, smell their finger and say,... "Gee, I'm not sure. I'll get back to you." Just my opinion... Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

08-06-2006, 04:14 PM	#3
RGARRETT Guest Posts: n/a	I called BTAF in Martinsburg VW and was told I had to mail the gun to them. I got this answer from some one in the Import office because he was the only only I could get to talk to me. I think I need to talk to the Technical office. I find it hard to believe that that is the procedure. After 8 calls I have not found anyone else available to talk with me. Impatient in Texas.

08-07-2006, 08:06 AM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	Call the BATF in Atlanta and ask to speak with an agent. Don't talk to a clerk because in that office they will always put you on hold while they finish their nails.