Question

bill m · 08-18-2001, 07:25 PM

What would you guys think of a 1939 Dated Banner with a serial number in the high 600x range -- with only 655 655 proofs on the right receiver -- no test proof -- and Eagle N proofs on the sight block, breech and receiver on the left side. It is drilled for a sear safety, but not added. I just got it and am extremely happy to have acquired it. Give me your opinions and I'll share what it is later. No camera, so no picture.

Thor · 08-18-2001, 09:16 PM

Do you feel like it was drilled at Mauser Bill? I would imagine that is a possiblity! The lack of the firing safety on the barrel is puzzling? ~Thor~

bill m · 08-18-2001, 11:08 PM

Yes Ted, it was drilled at the Mauser factory. But the sear safety was never put on.

08-19-2001, 08:55 AM

This one sounds like a transition between the E/L 1939 Police Banners that Castanzo shows (see WOL Proofmarks page 417) going upto the 770X range and the 1940 Military accepted banners in the 770 to 1700X range. He also notes some in this latter range with code 42 toggles. Sounds like a stranger bird with post April 1940 commerical test fire proofing, E/655 military acceptance and drilled for Police sear safety. This must correlate to GENERAL (MILITARY) MAUSER'S personal (commerical) luger made in late 1940 from left over 1939 Police contract parts. How's that for a tall gun show story?

bill m · 08-19-2001, 10:20 AM

Hi Tom,

There is a range of Lugers in the 600x to 1700x that are labeled Mauser Banner Military Lugers in most of the books. These are almost always dated 1940 - Have the Mauser Banner -- are drilled for the sear safety, but not added -- have 655 655 proofs on the right receiver but no test proof -- and have Eagle N proofs on the left receiver, breech, and barrel band. These are actually a Police contract as the ones known with a matching magazine all have a police magazine. Anyway -- there are a very, very few of these guns dated 1939 -- My understanding is that only 4 are known at this time, and none are pictured in any books with the 1939 date, only the 1940 date. Look at "Third Reich Lugers" page 140. Mauser drilled the hole for the sear safety at the factory, as they did for all of the police guns as the hole is blue inside, which would indicate that it was blued after the hole was drilled, just like the 1942 Banners that do not have the sear safety installed. These are a very interesting variation and the exact time of assembly is later than the dates as they have the Eagle N proof -- and all of the matching magazines are fxo's which would date them in the middle of 1941. The receivers were either left over's or rejects as they are not test proofed. I have seen the 1940 dated ones before, but never a 1939 and am really happy to have acquired this one as it is in about 97 percent original condition.

08-19-2001, 05:45 PM

Bill, I agree that this is a rare variation. I hope that my joking didn't imply that it wasn't original. Tom h

Robert Wiggins · 08-19-2001, 06:55 PM

Bill;

Ok, you have given us all the technical details but how about the colorfull stuff. How did you acquire it and what is the background info? I suspect this will be interesting.

Regards;

bill m · 08-20-2001, 12:45 AM

These guns are mixed in with the 1940 Banner Eagle C police guns. The 600x to 1700x can be either. A very interesting variation and seldom seen. Speaking of the 1940 Eagle C police guns, I feel that they are just about the hardest Banner to find, outside of the 1938 Banner Eagle K. You seldom see a 1940 Eagle C and I do not think there is as big a production run of 1940 Eagle C's as some of the books indicate. A very good variation to find!

08-18-2001, 07:25 PM	#1
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Question What would you guys think of a 1939 Dated Banner with a serial number in the high 600x range -- with only 655 655 proofs on the right receiver -- no test proof -- and Eagle N proofs on the sight block, breech and receiver on the left side. It is drilled for a sear safety, but not added. I just got it and am extremely happy to have acquired it. Give me your opinions and I'll share what it is later. No camera, so no picture.

08-18-2001, 09:16 PM	#2
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Re: Question Do you feel like it was drilled at Mauser Bill? I would imagine that is a possiblity! The lack of the firing safety on the barrel is puzzling? ~Thor~

08-18-2001, 11:08 PM	#3
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Question Yes Ted, it was drilled at the Mauser factory. But the sear safety was never put on.

08-19-2001, 08:55 AM	#4
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 1939 Banner This one sounds like a transition between the E/L 1939 Police Banners that Castanzo shows (see WOL Proofmarks page 417) going upto the 770X range and the 1940 Military accepted banners in the 770 to 1700X range. He also notes some in this latter range with code 42 toggles. Sounds like a stranger bird with post April 1940 commerical test fire proofing, E/655 military acceptance and drilled for Police sear safety. This must correlate to GENERAL (MILITARY) MAUSER'S personal (commerical) luger made in late 1940 from left over 1939 Police contract parts. How's that for a tall gun show story?

08-19-2001, 10:20 AM	#5
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1939 Banner Hi Tom, There is a range of Lugers in the 600x to 1700x that are labeled Mauser Banner Military Lugers in most of the books. These are almost always dated 1940 - Have the Mauser Banner -- are drilled for the sear safety, but not added -- have 655 655 proofs on the right receiver but no test proof -- and have Eagle N proofs on the left receiver, breech, and barrel band. These are actually a Police contract as the ones known with a matching magazine all have a police magazine. Anyway -- there are a very, very few of these guns dated 1939 -- My understanding is that only 4 are known at this time, and none are pictured in any books with the 1939 date, only the 1940 date. Look at "Third Reich Lugers" page 140. Mauser drilled the hole for the sear safety at the factory, as they did for all of the police guns as the hole is blue inside, which would indicate that it was blued after the hole was drilled, just like the 1942 Banners that do not have the sear safety installed. These are a very interesting variation and the exact time of assembly is later than the dates as they have the Eagle N proof -- and all of the matching magazines are fxo's which would date them in the middle of 1941. The receivers were either left over's or rejects as they are not test proofed. I have seen the 1940 dated ones before, but never a 1939 and am really happy to have acquired this one as it is in about 97 percent original condition.

08-19-2001, 05:45 PM	#6
tom h Guest Posts: n/a	Re: 1939 Banner Bill, I agree that this is a rare variation. I hope that my joking didn't imply that it wasn't original. Tom h

08-19-2001, 06:55 PM	#7
Robert Wiggins User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 142 Thanks: 16 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: 1939 Banner Bill; Ok, you have given us all the technical details but how about the colorfull stuff. How did you acquire it and what is the background info? I suspect this will be interesting. Regards;

08-20-2001, 12:45 AM	#8
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mixed in with the 1940 Eagle C's These guns are mixed in with the 1940 Banner Eagle C police guns. The 600x to 1700x can be either. A very interesting variation and seldom seen. Speaking of the 1940 Eagle C police guns, I feel that they are just about the hardest Banner to find, outside of the 1938 Banner Eagle K. You seldom see a 1940 Eagle C and I do not think there is as big a production run of 1940 Eagle C's as some of the books indicate. A very good variation to find!