Astrix Stamp On Barrel??

[Captain Emo]

I am looking at two 1940 42 Lugers. One is in excellent condition. It has an "astrix" type mark on the barrel, just ahead of the eagle proof. It does not look like a VOPO mark. It is quite small, but not a ding or scratch.

Can anyone shed some light on this mark?

Eric

[Edward Tinker]

Eric, we'd need pictures, otherwise a huge guess. Could be east german, could be weimar police (if mismatched), could be bubba's mark....


It sounds like a vopo marking to me...


Ed

[Lugerdoc]

Eric, I've owned several lugers with that WW2 marking, who's purpose is not known for sure. Most likely a hardness test. TH

[Marvin]

Since this particular topic comes up once in a while I am going to post my theory. I posted the following back in 2001 on this Forum and also in the NAPA journal. I had a lot of nasty remarks here and I don't want them again! This is only a THEORY based upon my past reading, I have nothing to back it up as no one else has any backup to their theory either. So, take if for what it says....THEORY ONLY

Well, due to my busy schedule this week, I decided to write my little explanation/opinion to the mysterious â??Asteriskâ?� that is seen on the P.38, Lugers, and other German armaments a little at a time and post it when I get completed.

I appreciate the different opinions, and that is what they are, opinions only. Even though I have my opinion as stated below, I am not convinced it is the correct one by any means. When I was in Brazil, I wrote a little article on this opinion for NAPCA and immediately had responses that differed from mine. That is OK, and until some verified information comes to light, we will never know what this symbol means. I think we have had some good discussions and no one is right or wrong.

My theory began one day when I saw a photo on the Internet of a group of Allgemeine SS soldiers in a school classroom. On the chalkboard was various Runes/symbols used by the SS. When I got back home, I decided that I would look up the meaning of these symbols. One of these symbols on the board was the â??Asteriskâ?�. This symbol was one of the old Germanic runes, which the SS was reviving at that time. I donâ??t remember exactly what the meaning was, but at the time the symbol made sense with the stamp on a weapon part. My theory is that the SS did provide labor to the various manufacturing plants in Germany and the plants paid the SS a small amount for each worker. If the plants were paying for this labor, to the SS, and I was a plant manager, I would want the SS to take some responsibility in these laborers providing part/s that were in specification. In addition to the regular Waffenamt inspection, I would want to know for sure the parts had not been sabotaged, etc. Since the SS were in control of the labor force as far as security was concerned, I would think the manufacturers would want the SS to take some responsibility for the parts their labor force generated? To do this, the SS would have a mark/stamp placed on randomly selected parts that were checked by them, in addition to the Waffenamt and plant checks? Since the SS was into the old Germanic Runes, the â??Asteriskâ?� was a logical choice to use for this random check.

Here is additiona information I provided when I got home from Brazil......

My theory, is that this mark deals with the inspection of various components of a weapon by an Allgemeine-SS inspector. This would be in addition to the Waffenampt inspection by the OKH and their subsequent approval by the stamps we are accustomed to seeing. Now, the big question in my theory; why would the Allgemeine-SS be inspecting parts? It is well known that the SS provided labor from the Concentration Camps to the manufacturers of war goods so the Third Reich could maintain an ample supply of finished products because most of the factory workers had been conscripted into military service. One of the units in the Allgemeine-SS organization was Amptsgruppe W ( SS Economics Enterprises, originally formed in 1942 as the SS Wirtschafts-und-Verwaltungshauptamt, or the WVHA under SS-Obergruppenfuhrer Oswald Pohl), and one of the sub units was AMPT IV, Deutsche Ausrustungswerke, or D.A.W. (German Equipment Works), which was under the direction of SS-Sturmbannfuhrer Dr. Hans May. Section 1 of the D.A.W. provided Military Armaments. The SS involvement in the armaments and munitions industry increased as the war progresses, not only for the purpose of supplying the Waffen-SS, but also to assist conventional arms manufacturers by furnishing them cheap labor. The SS made many of its own weapons and technical instrumentation at Auschwitz, Neuengamme, Ravensbruck, Sachsenhausen, Stutthof, Lublin and Plaszow, maintained an ordnance testing and repair shop at Stutthof, and melted down scrap cable at Dachau. In addition, aircraft parts assembly was carried out at Flossenburg, Mauthausen and Natzweiler on behalf of the Messerschmitt and Junkers companies. Heinkel contracted the SS to produce hangers for them at Sachsenhausen, gun carriages were repaired at Mauthausen, hand grenades assembled at Sachsenhausen, and industrial diamonds cut at Herzogenbusch and Belsen. Since the SS did maintain high standards for the goods produced by these laborers, it would be logical that an SS inspector would take a sampling of the parts and stamp them with the â??asteriskâ?�, or â??eight pointed starâ?� to prove they were in tolerance or to help alleviate the possibility of sabotage of parts by the forced laborer. This inspection by the SS would help eliminate the purposeful sabotage of work in process and therefore assist the manufacturer maintain his monthly quota.

To further my theory, lets look at where the inspection stamp (â??asteriskâ?�, or â??eight pointed starâ?�) by the SS could have originated. In the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, runes began to be re-examined by the fashionable â??Volkisch or folkâ?� movements of Northern Europe, which promoted interest in traditional stories, beliefs, and festivals. The Thule Society was among these groups, and through his association with its activities, Himmler began to look back to the mystical Dark Age Germanic period for much of his inspiration. With Himmlerâ??s fascination for cryptic codes, it would be appropriate that he adopt certain runes for use by his SS. All pre-1939 Allgemeine-SS Anwarter were instructed in runic symbolism as part of their training. By 1945, there were fourteen main varieties of runes in use by the SS. I will not go into detail on all them, but the main ones are; The Hakenkreuz, or Swastika, The Sonnenrad, or sunwheel Swastika, and The Hagall-Rune, or our â??asteriskâ?�, or â??eight pointed starâ?�.

Letâ??s deal with The Hagall-Rune; it stood for unshakable faith, which was expected of all SS members. It was featured on the SS deathâ??s head ring as well as on ceremonial accoutrements used at SS weddings. It was also chosen as the sign of the SS-Polizei-Division, since it resembled the traditional â??Police Starâ?� badge. All runes derive from the hexagon. Carrying this symbol gives strength over adversity as it encompasses the total of all the runes. The overall interpretation of this rune is to believe in yourself and you will become the master of everything.

This is my theory for the â??asteriskâ?� that is stamped on many types of armaments produced by manufacturers during the war period. As the war progressed, more and more labor from the Camps were utilized and with the SS being paid for these workers, it would be logical that the SS would be responsible for the quality produced by the laborers.

That is it folks, hope this help clear up some questions as to the theory. Don't blast me as it is only a theory and I am not trying to convince anyone it is fact.


In a nutshell, this is my little theory and a theory only. I do not espouse this to be correct, just a thought only.

[Lugerdoc]

Marvin, I like your theory. I had forgoten seeing it in Automag, so long ago. Now if someone who investigates the old German records can come up with an invoice showing payment to the SS for Luger or P38 barrels, were in business. Thanks, TH

[Marvin]

Hello Tom,

I thought some of the NAPCA and Forum members would remember this. I just wish I had a copy of the photograph I saw, but the "asterisk" was definetly on the blackboard. I also had to so some searching to find out what the symbol meant, but I do know where the information on the Hagall-Rune is located.

Wheather my theory could be correct or not, I feel it is as good as most of the others, LOL.

[Mike Fitz]

My 42 code 1940 s/n 413g has the asterisk on the right side of the barrel just forward of the Army test proof.

Jan Stills Third Reich Lugers shows this same asterisk on 42/1940 s/n 4487c shown on page 67.

Jan mentions the asterisk being on the barrel but does not explain what it means

Regards,
Mike

[Marvin]

I have a "byf" 42 with the asterisk and several other Lugers and P,38s. I like the asterisk I guess because we don't have any idea what it means, but it is just "cool". It ceertainly had a meaning at one time for the arms industry as it has been stamped on all type ordnance, weapons and other parts. maybe one day someone will find substantiating data and provide an answer.