Strange Luger Shooting Incident - SOLVED

Luke · 04-17-2006, 04:22 PM

Shot 40+ rounds in my favorite Luger this afternoon without incident.

Then, the next round loaded properly; but when I pulled the trigger nothing happened.

I recycled manually with the same result: The round loaded properly but pulling the trigger did not cause the gun to fire.

At that point I unloaded the gun and carefully inspected it for problems. I noticed that the sear spring was missing ! I searched the ground where I had been firing and found the spring . . . apparently not damaged in any way. I reassembled the gun, but did not fire it again.

I have never had this happen before with any Luger. Can anyone offer a possible explanation and/or resolution for the problem?

Thanks,
Luke

policeluger · 04-17-2006, 05:06 PM

With respect, was the spring properly installed prior to shooting, has it lost its spring tension.

Luke · 04-17-2006, 06:22 PM

Hi Howard,

Yes, I did think about that, and it is certainly a possibility. However, having disassembled and assembled Lugers many, many times I doubt that is the problem.

Having said that, I am sure that if the rolled part of the leaf spring were not properly engaged with the end of the sear bar it could work its way out.

I guess my main reason for this post was to learn if such a malfunction could be dangerous. On the surface I don't see any risk in this event, should it occur again; but I am no expert.

Luke

John Sabato · 04-17-2006, 07:30 PM

Luke, from what you have described, the lack of the sear spring may introduce a danger in that the sear engagement may not be as safe (deep) as when the spring is used...

One other potential danger is that the firing pin may follow the breechblock in the closed position causing an unintentional discharge...or perhaps even multiple discharges if the magazine isn't empty...

As dangerous as I have made it sound, I consider these events generally unlikely, but certainly possible.

Just my $0.02 based on years of study of the Luger engineering...

Luke · 04-17-2006, 08:34 PM

Thanks for your comments, John. It seems like a reasonable hypothesis that "machinegunning" might result from the absence of a leaf spring on the sear bar.

I think in this case the actual mechanical operation allowed the sear to move so far out of the range of the firing pin that it never cocked at all.
However, if the sear were only partially engaged it might, indeed, allow rapid fire or unintentional discharge.

Regards,
Luke

Vlim · 04-18-2006, 07:44 AM

Hi,

If it offers some comfort. I had my Dutch luger go full-auto on me once, after I installed the wrong firing pin. It was an interesting experience but no harm was done to the pistol or the shooter. The paper target got peppered, though. The magazine was empty before you could say 'bang'.

It certainly showed the machine gun heritage of the pistol design

Lugerdoc · 04-18-2006, 09:53 AM

Luke, I would carefully inspect both the inside of the sear (trigger bar) and the FP to see if any of the surfaces are rounded or damaged, which may be preventing the proper engagement (cocking). If it is cocking OK, I would guess that your problem lay in the area of the trigger LEVER or disconnector. TH

Lugerdoc · 04-18-2006, 09:58 AM

PS: Your trigger bar spring should have a pronounced bend in it, to firmly hold down the tigger bar, as it engages the FP. TH

Luke · 04-22-2006, 06:29 PM

Howard wrote:

"With respect, was the spring properly installed prior to shooting, has it lost its spring tension?."

Just to be certain that I had properly installed the sear and its spring, I removed both, inspected them, and reinstalled . . . . being careful to insure that they were properly seated. Then, I fired 35 rounds and noticed that the sear spring had worked its way up over the indentation in the sear bar and was almost out.

Comparison of the sear spring to like parts on other known-good shooter Lugers indicated that this spring had, indeed, lost its tension and was somewhat flatter. Both Tom Heller and Howard (Policeluger) mentioned this possibility. Thanks for the tip.

I replaced the spring with a new-looking part and shot the gun extensively this afternoon with no further incidents. PROBLEM SOLVED.

While I am aware that this is not a very interesting or exciting issue, I feel that, in the interest of other shooters, it would be good if every shooting malfunction could be reported on the forum, especially if a potential safety problem is involved.

Thanks for your comments and support.

Regards,
Luke

policeluger · 04-22-2006, 07:19 PM

Luke, I am always excited when ever I'm right on anything.

Luke · 04-22-2006, 08:06 PM

Thanks again, Howard.

Luke

pipeman45 · 04-23-2006, 06:33 AM

Thanks for the posting. We shooters are always in need of advice on how to keep them up and running.

04-17-2006, 04:22 PM	#1
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Strange Luger Shooting Incident - SOLVED Shot 40+ rounds in my favorite Luger this afternoon without incident. Then, the next round loaded properly; but when I pulled the trigger nothing happened. I recycled manually with the same result: The round loaded properly but pulling the trigger did not cause the gun to fire. At that point I unloaded the gun and carefully inspected it for problems. I noticed that the sear spring was missing ! I searched the ground where I had been firing and found the spring . . . apparently not damaged in any way. I reassembled the gun, but did not fire it again. I have never had this happen before with any Luger. Can anyone offer a possible explanation and/or resolution for the problem? Thanks, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-17-2006, 06:22 PM	#3
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Hi Howard, Yes, I did think about that, and it is certainly a possibility. However, having disassembled and assembled Lugers many, many times I doubt that is the problem. Having said that, I am sure that if the rolled part of the leaf spring were not properly engaged with the end of the sear bar it could work its way out. I guess my main reason for this post was to learn if such a malfunction could be dangerous. On the surface I don't see any risk in this event, should it occur again; but I am no expert. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-17-2006, 07:30 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,152 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Luke, from what you have described, the lack of the sear spring may introduce a danger in that the sear engagement may not be as safe (deep) as when the spring is used... One other potential danger is that the firing pin may follow the breechblock in the closed position causing an unintentional discharge...or perhaps even multiple discharges if the magazine isn't empty... As dangerous as I have made it sound, I consider these events generally unlikely, but certainly possible. Just my $0.02 based on years of study of the Luger engineering... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-17-2006, 08:34 PM	#5
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Thanks for your comments, John. It seems like a reasonable hypothesis that "machinegunning" might result from the absence of a leaf spring on the sear bar. I think in this case the actual mechanical operation allowed the sear to move so far out of the range of the firing pin that it never cocked at all. However, if the sear were only partially engaged it might, indeed, allow rapid fire or unintentional discharge. Regards, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-18-2006, 09:53 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Luke, I would carefully inspect both the inside of the sear (trigger bar) and the FP to see if any of the surfaces are rounded or damaged, which may be preventing the proper engagement (cocking). If it is cocking OK, I would guess that your problem lay in the area of the trigger LEVER or disconnector. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-17-2006, 05:06 PM	#2
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	With respect, was the spring properly installed prior to shooting, has it lost its spring tension.

04-18-2006, 07:44 AM	#6
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,049 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,958 Times in 1,200 Posts	Hi, If it offers some comfort. I had my Dutch luger go full-auto on me once, after I installed the wrong firing pin. It was an interesting experience but no harm was done to the pistol or the shooter. The paper target got peppered, though. The magazine was empty before you could say 'bang'. It certainly showed the machine gun heritage of the pistol design

04-18-2006, 09:58 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	PS: Your trigger bar spring should have a pronounced bend in it, to firmly hold down the tigger bar, as it engages the FP. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

04-22-2006, 06:29 PM	#9
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Howard wrote: "With respect, was the spring properly installed prior to shooting, has it lost its spring tension?." Just to be certain that I had properly installed the sear and its spring, I removed both, inspected them, and reinstalled . . . . being careful to insure that they were properly seated. Then, I fired 35 rounds and noticed that the sear spring had worked its way up over the indentation in the sear bar and was almost out. Comparison of the sear spring to like parts on other known-good shooter Lugers indicated that this spring had, indeed, lost its tension and was somewhat flatter. Both Tom Heller and Howard (Policeluger) mentioned this possibility. Thanks for the tip. I replaced the spring with a new-looking part and shot the gun extensively this afternoon with no further incidents. PROBLEM SOLVED. While I am aware that this is not a very interesting or exciting issue, I feel that, in the interest of other shooters, it would be good if every shooting malfunction could be reported on the forum, especially if a potential safety problem is involved. Thanks for your comments and support. Regards, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-22-2006, 07:19 PM	#10
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Luke, I am always excited when ever I'm right on anything.

04-22-2006, 08:06 PM	#11
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Thanks again, Howard. Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-23-2006, 06:33 AM	#12
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for the posting. We shooters are always in need of advice on how to keep them up and running. __________________ Dave