Norinco 9mm - Page 3

Aaron · 01-10-2010, 01:50 PM

I think there is some confusion here. Norinco ammo is safe to use, Russian ammo is too hot.

Sieger · 01-10-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron

I think there is some confusion here. Norinco ammo is safe to use, Russian ammo is too hot.

Aaron:

I've never tried any of the Russian stuff because most of it is steel cased.

Sieger

Mauser George · 01-10-2010, 07:58 PM

Seiger:

First and foremost, why are you addressing me as Dear? I take it you have a situation with Men?

Second, all you do my friend is make me laugh as there is nothing you could possibly say or do that would damper my day!

Third, find someone else to argue with. You are in your own little world, so please stay there.

George

Sieger · 01-10-2010, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauser George

Seiger:

First and foremost, why are you addressing me as Dear? I take it you have a situation with Men?

George

Dear George:

Your low-rent comment speaks for itself.

I'm still waiting, calmly, for that 1,400 fps, 124 grain German Army load from you.

Sieger

XOXOXO

jonnyc · 01-10-2010, 11:24 PM

Asked and answered...twice.

Sieger · 01-11-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyc

Asked and answered...twice.

Dear JonnyC:

Thanks for the verification.

Sieger

Vlim · 01-14-2010, 08:43 AM

After some additional reading I expect that the 1400fps story is probably based on the higher muzzle velocity of the SE (Sintered Iron) and mE (iron core) P08 rounds from the WW2 era. Because of their lighter bullet, combined with an unchanged powder charge, the SE especially developed a muzzle speed that exceeded the standard 320m/s (1049) quite a bit.

A test velocity given for the SE round was 395m/s which is some 1295 fps.

Sieger · 01-14-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

After some additional reading I expect that the 1400fps story is probably based on the higher muzzle velocity of the SE (Sintered Iron) and mE (iron core) P08 rounds from the WW2 era. Because of their lighter bullet, combined with an unchanged powder charge, the SE especially developed a muzzle speed that exceeded the standard 320m/s (1049) quite a bit.

A test velocity given for the SE round was 395m/s which is some 1295 fps.

Dear Vlim:

Yes, these were very light bullets! Also, they distroyed a barrel very quickly.

Would you happen to know the exact weight of these SE bullets?

Sieger

sheepherder · 01-14-2010, 10:04 AM

I searched my junk cartridges box looking for that other 9mm brass-bulleted cartridge; couldn't find it...but I did find two 7.65mm Luger cartridges (pretty cruddy until cleaned up) with unusual (to me) looking bullets...(copper???)...

Headstamp says -

DWM
K K
471

And the primer looks to be brass...

Vlim · 01-14-2010, 09:48 AM

Well, the barrel certainly is clean afterwards

Walter gives the following weights:
6.42 grams for the mE (99gr)
5.87 grams (90.6gr) for the SE).

The standard weight was 8 grams (123.5gr).

I can measure the exact weight differences if needed. Have enough reference specimens (just no loose bullets) over here.

Sieger · 01-14-2010, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Well, the barrel certainly is clean afterwards

Walter gives the following weights:
6.42 grams for the mE (99gr)
5.87 grams (90.6gr) for the SE).

The standard weight was 8 grams (123.5gr).

I can measure the exact weight differences if needed. Have enough reference specimens (just no loose bullets) over here.

Dear Vlim:

The Hornady Reloading Manual list the following as maximum for the respective weights:

90 grain 1,450 fps

100 grain 1,350 fps

124 grain 1,150 fps

FYI

Sieger

FNorm · 01-14-2010, 10:15 AM

If I remember correctly it was forum member, Alx who had the cracking problem.

FN

Vlim · 01-14-2010, 10:32 AM

Postino,

The photo is a bit small, but they are a nice pair of commercial DWM Karlsruhe made 7.65 Para rounds. Bullets can be nickle plated, usually with a steel jacket underneath. Brass primers are pretty much the standard on DWM rounds. 471 is the DWM model number.

sheepherder · 01-14-2010, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

Postino,

The photo is a bit small, but they are a nice pair of commercial DWM Karlsruhe made 7.65 Para rounds. Bullets can be nickle plated, usually with a steel jacket underneath. Brass primers are pretty much the standard on DWM rounds. 471 is the DWM model number.

Thank You!

I couldn't get my digi-cam to focus that small; so I scanned them...I try to keep a sample of all calibers for reference; I found out the hard way that most reference books have misprints...Not what you want when you're reloading...

Lemme see if I can get the other camera to focus that small...Here we go...BTW: they're unfired...What looks like a firing pin dent is the machining (or polishing?) marks on the primer...

Vlim · 01-14-2010, 11:11 AM

I usually use the scanner for the pistol rounds as well. Just select a slightly higher resolution (300 - 600dpi should work well).

sheepherder · 01-14-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlim

I usually use the scanner for the pistol rounds as well. Just select a slightly higher resolution (300 - 600dpi should work well).

Vlim -

What did you use for a backdrop??? I usually use a blue, pink, or yellow towel...Draped directly over the cartridges...

Here's two scans...both at 600dpi...with a dark and a light blue backdrop...

First pic is 7.63mm Mauser; second has the Norinco 9mm at top, and Federal 9mm at bottom...

Sieger · 01-14-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postino

Vlim -

What did you use for a backdrop??? I usually use a blue, pink, or yellow towel...Draped directly over the cartridges...

Here's two scans...both at 600dpi...with a dark and a light blue backdrop...

Dear Postion:

Now that you have given me a good look at it, this is definately not the 124 gr Chinese ammo I have.

Mine is in a very "brassy" colored case, your looks like it has more of a copper composition to it. Also, mine is in a much "thinner" case; yours looks like, what I would consider, a normal military style case.

Well, the mystery continues. I'll be testing my ammo upon my upcoming trip to Florida.

Thanks!

Sieger

sheepherder · 01-14-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sieger

Mine is in a very "brassy" colored case, your looks like it has more of a copper composition to it.

It could be me; my IBM G96 monitor displays everything very dark. I usually lighten my pics up in PSP to display them better.

Compared to the Federal 9mm, the Norinco case is quite a bit darker. The bullet itself is yellower than the case.

alvin · 01-14-2010, 07:45 PM

Could anyone tell me the twist of 9mm Parabellum Pistol?

"Submachine Gun Designer's Handbook" says 1/250 RH, could you confirm that?

Vlim · 01-16-2010, 11:09 AM

Yep, as well as that of the 7.65 para / .30 luger version.

Postino:
I've used different back drops for scanning cartridges, the simplest is just a plain piece of paper that I put on top of it (because my scanner has an insert for slide and negative scanning). What also works well is a small white plastic bottle that I cut up so that a U-shaped cover was left over. I put the round on the glass plate, place the U-shaped cover over it and then scan that area. Although it is white, the shadow creates a light grey background.

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01-10-2010, 01:50 PM	#1
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	I think there is some confusion here. Norinco ammo is safe to use, Russian ammo is too hot.

01-10-2010, 07:58 PM	#3
Mauser George User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: New York Posts: 88 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Seiger: First and foremost, why are you addressing me as Dear? I take it you have a situation with Men? Second, all you do my friend is make me laugh as there is nothing you could possibly say or do that would damper my day! Third, find someone else to argue with. You are in your own little world, so please stay there. George

01-10-2010, 11:24 PM	#5
jonnyc User Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 425 Thanks: 2 Thanked 46 Times in 34 Posts	Asked and answered...twice.

01-14-2010, 08:43 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	After some additional reading I expect that the 1400fps story is probably based on the higher muzzle velocity of the SE (Sintered Iron) and mE (iron core) P08 rounds from the WW2 era. Because of their lighter bullet, combined with an unchanged powder charge, the SE especially developed a muzzle speed that exceeded the standard 320m/s (1049) quite a bit. A test velocity given for the SE round was 395m/s which is some 1295 fps.

01-14-2010, 09:48 AM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	Well, the barrel certainly is clean afterwards Walter gives the following weights: 6.42 grams for the mE (99gr) 5.87 grams (90.6gr) for the SE). The standard weight was 8 grams (123.5gr). I can measure the exact weight differences if needed. Have enough reference specimens (just no loose bullets) over here.

01-14-2010, 10:15 AM	#12
FNorm Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 978 Thanks: 68 Thanked 127 Times in 108 Posts	If I remember correctly it was forum member, Alx who had the cracking problem. FN

01-14-2010, 10:32 AM	#13
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	Postino, The photo is a bit small, but they are a nice pair of commercial DWM Karlsruhe made 7.65 Para rounds. Bullets can be nickle plated, usually with a steel jacket underneath. Brass primers are pretty much the standard on DWM rounds. 471 is the DWM model number.

01-14-2010, 07:45 PM	#19
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Could anyone tell me the twist of 9mm Parabellum Pistol? "Submachine Gun Designer's Handbook" says 1/250 RH, could you confirm that?

01-16-2010, 11:09 AM	#20
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,991 Times in 1,205 Posts	Yep, as well as that of the 7.65 para / .30 luger version. Postino: I've used different back drops for scanning cartridges, the simplest is just a plain piece of paper that I put on top of it (because my scanner has an insert for slide and negative scanning). What also works well is a small white plastic bottle that I cut up so that a U-shaped cover was left over. I put the round on the glass plate, place the U-shaped cover over it and then scan that area. Although it is white, the shadow creates a light grey background.