Troubleshooting my new luger.

[Frater]

Hello all. This is my first post on this great forum, treat me gently.
I have purchased a DWM 1917 Arty luger from forum member Kress, pictures and some background can be found in an earlier thread of his regarding sight problems. It is mismatched with a Tikka barrel so it will be a shooter.

When cleaning up the guts of the gun I found two parts that may need attention.

The firing pin spring rod appears to have broken off from the rear spring cap, the break seems to have happened some time ago and I wonder if this can cause problems. It still performs its task but can travel back and forth during action.

With the thumb safety on safe I noted that pressing the trigger causes the sear to flex outwards enough that the firing pin hook gets hung up on the edge of the sear. Arming the gun puts it on hair trigger since the sear has not reset all the way back. What is the best way to fix this? Improve sear spring tension, polish engagement surfaces? Ideally the sear should not travel at all when the safety is engaged IMO.

More questions to come after I've fired it for the first time I'm sure.

[DavidJayUden]

Contact our own LugerDoc, as he will be able to help with parts and advice.
dju

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Frater

I have purchased a DWM 1917 Arty luger...It is mismatched with a Tikka barrel...

Tikkakoski made artillery barrels???

Can you post pics??? I'd like to see a Tikkakoski artillery barrel...Does it have the circle/triangle/T???

Edit: Nope, not an arty barrel. (But it does have the circle/triangle/T)...Link to pics & thread below...

[mrerick]

Hi,

Pictures are probably necessary for anyone to judge the safety of your firing pin spring retainer and the breech block it fits into.

If the spring retainer is broken, you can obtain a replacement. Tom (LugerDoc) is a great place to start.

If the breech block is broken, it's evidence of an overpressure or primer blowout. This happened with the non-fluted firing pins, causing damage to the rear of the breech block. If this is the case, it's probably unsafe to shoot in that condition.

Again, Tom would be a good place to start for the parts, but there can be subtle variations to this part, and fitting may be necessary.

It's possible that the sear bar or the slot and pin it fits into the receiver with was damaged in the same accident that caused the problem at the rear of the breech block. This part should pivot securely and not have a lot of play.

Marc

[Frater]

Thanks for the answers.

I will take some pictures this evening, when I disassembled the firing pin assembly I saw no damages to the breech block. The retainer lug looks a bit rough but fits snugly in the locking groove.

Cheers!

[sheepherder]

Pics are shown at -

http://forum.lugerforum.com/showthread.php?t=25138

Re-barreled arty w/Tikkakoski barrel, loose front sight, mismatched toggle train. No mention if sight was ever fixed.

[Frater]

The sight has been fixed.

I'm curious how a Tikkakoski ended up on an arty. Did it end up as a service pistol with the Finnish police or something?
I will take more pics of the retainer, sear and all proof marks I can find.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Frater

The sight has been fixed.

I'm curious how a Tikkakoski ended up on an arty.

Frater - Are you also in Sweden???

Tikkakoski barrels show up on Gunbroker.com here in the USA fairly often...I have one of the longer Tikkakoski [4 3/4"] Luger barrels...Been meaning to do something with it, but Real Life always intervenes...

[mrerick]

Hi, In the 5th of the photos, it looks like the extractor is not fully seated. Could this be due to damage, or an assembly problem, or the wrong extractor (too long?).

[Frater]

Ok, back again, now with fresh photos.

Postino: Yup I live in sweden.

Extractor with loaded chamber.



Extractor with empty chamber, note slight deformation in breech behind extractor, not sure if this is usual.
The extractor will not move back and forth in the space so probably it has been replaced at some time.



Sideplate inside. What is the swiss cross about?



Sear bar detail, Safety has been slightly engaged to show available space for movement of the sear bar when trigger is depressed while on safe.



Breech left side. Sight on rear toggle appears to be modified with a higher square cut plate. Good for target shooting, the current front sight is square too.



Breech right side



Firing pin with broken spring guide rod, locking lug looks ok though. More swiss pluses...



Trigger assembly


Some notes.
The gun happily feeds ammunition when manually cycling the toggle, ejecting works fine with no sticking.
The trigger feels very good though on the light side, firing pin release comes as a bit of a surprise with no last moment sticking.
The barrel looks brand new inside, no scratches nor any residue.
The issue with the safety still bothers me but I will keep it in mind when at the range.

I intend to fire this gun for the first time tomorrow afternoon unless someone shouts. =)

Cheers!

[sheepherder]

Your trigger looks...modified...The notch for the trigger lever is angled, where mine are all level/horizontal...and the front of the trigger looks to be bent more than mine...The spring looks odd, too...almost like a coil is broken...

The extractor cutout is peened back in two places that I can see...You might be right about the extractor itself being too long...that could cause the peening...

[Frater]

Tried it at the range today.
It handles and shoots very well. Trigger is very light due to the spring being cut a coil or two as you noted on the photo.
It is quite finicky with the ammunition, My TC handloads for my 2011 had way too long oal it seems.
FTF with Magtech in some mags, the earlier owner claims it runs best on S&B.
Guess I'll just have to go shopping.

[John Sabato]

It is NOT recommended that you shoot your Luger until you have replaced the broken firing pin retention pin... you could cause further damage to your Luger. Contact Tom Heller (LugerDOC) for a replacement.

[Frater]

John, thanks for the heads up!
Will check for a new part.

[zinfull]

You may want to up date the firing pin to a notched style. They vent gases in case of a blow out primer.

jerry

[Frater]

I pulled apart the extractor today and found a couple of decades of semisolid dirt under it.
Mr ultrasonic has been of great value to me getting rid of hard to reach gunk, also this time.
After replacing the extractor I notice that it can flex back and forward about 1mm, fitting the peening. Anyone know the cause and how far outside spec is it?

I also found the probable cause of the broken spring guide.
The rear of the breech including the retention cap has some peening from slamming into the rear of the frame from shooting too hot ammo.
Thinking of putting some tape on the inside of the rear frame to ascertain if the current ammo beats it up as well.

During firing I noted that the front lip on the breech tends to snag on the rim of the next round in the magazine, braking the rear motion enough to cause a FTF even with moderate limp wristing.

Do all P08:s need a solid as hell grip? Gripping too hard impacts my precision.

One last question: How tight should the breech travel in the frame?
Mine certainly doesn't fall out of the gun when dissassembling it, it rides with some resistance even when no springs are in place.

(noted to my embarrasement that i misspelled troubleshooting in the original Title...) (FIXED! Admin-JS)

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by Frater

The rear of the breech including the retention cap has some peening from slamming into the rear of the frame from shooting too hot ammo.

Possibly...It could also be from an old tired mainspring...

[Lugerdoc]

Frater, It appears that your shooter luger has some improperly fitted parts. The trigger bar (sear) SHOULD move a bit when the trigger is pulled, ever with the safety on. It should move back to it's original position when the trigger is released, so the over lap of your striker to the sear is NOT within specs. If you decide to replace the striker, I would also recommend getting one with the relief cuts in the front for added protection from a punctured primer. The spring guide part of your FP retainer is not from an original WW2 or before retainer (should be tapered). I do have original retainers available @$25 or new postwar Mauser Parabellums @$15. I also have orig reliever FPs (strikers) or sears complete @$50 each. Changing either of these may affect your trigger plull and/or FP release, since not all luger parts are interchangable without some fitting. Finally, just because your receiver is notched for an LPO8 rear sight, does not necessarily indicate that an LPO8 barrel was ever installed. Your Finnish barrel, most likely replace a worn 4" barrel. The Finns also used many Swiss replacement parts after WW2 as that was the only source still making them until 1950. It sounds like you need a competent local gunsmith to check your luger, before you blow a breech block or something more serious. TH

[Frater]

Hi all, thanks for great guidance.
I have now replaced all regular springs with a kit from Wolff. I found a regional dealer in parabellum parts who sold me a FP with the relief cuts as well as a proper old style spring retainer.
Replacing the mainspring was tricky at first but worked fine once I read Thors guide. (Thanks Thor )

I also tightened up the sear spring a bit to improve Sear+FP hook-up.

After this the trigger pull is a lot heavier at maybe 4-5 pounds, but manageable. Not much creep but a slight increase in pull right before the break. I will do some polishing to mate the surface between the Sear and new FP better.

Now the gun happily feeds all 9mm ammo I give it including my slightly downloaded TC rounds.

Using tape I noted that production loads like Magtech 9B and S&B V310452 slams the frame even with the Wolff standard strength spring. I developed a softer load with 4.5gr 340 behind a 124gr TC plated bullet that does not mark the tape yet cycles the gun and makes relatively accurate holes in the paper target 25 meters away.

[Frater]

When showing the gun at the range a while ago one of the older guys did a double take and exclaimed that he had actually owned this exact gun back in the early sixties! Turns out he bought this and four other lugers in a bag from a finnish miner who did some shooting at the local range. The guns went for 35$ each (adjusting for inflation and historical currency rates), the set included a couple of marine lugers.

This specimen was then sold on to a swedish mine worker in the northern districts. Forty years later I bought it from a guy in Stockholm for 350$. =)