Ownership of Firearms in the Netherlands

[RShaw]

Don, Vlim- Yes, the fact that in the US it is considered a basic right to be able to own firearms is an incredible blessing! While these two terms (firearm / blessing) seem to contradict each other, in my mind they fit rather well.

Instrument of self protection...... collecting wonderful marvels of engineering.....hours of target shooting or hunting in the outdoors..... sharing a common interest / passion with the subsequent social contacts and friends which would otherwise probably not happen.... all wrapped up in one single object? Where else can one find such a thing?

The shooting enthusiasts here in the Netherlands are a close knit group... and feel strongly about the right to "practise a hobby" without being penalized for the wrong actions of a few. In this way, shooting and gun ownership are viewed here as a right rather than a priviledge.. in my opinion.

[mrerick]

In 1919 several American states passed draconian firearms control laws with the intention of disarming one group - black American citizens.

This started in New York with the Sullivan Act, and was followed in other states including North Carolina where I live now. We have a "Pistol Purchase Permit" system which was established then, and which we're still working to eliminate. It was specifically established as an anti-black Jim Crow law in order to prevent blacks from having handguns.

A historical study based on contemporary reporting of the law was recently completed: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers....act_id=2759091

Our state had a handgun registration law on the books in one county (Durham) which we got repealed 3 years ago. I had to go back to hardcopy of the laws to actually locate it since it had been codified in 1935. The way it was written, any citizen traveling through the county had to register their handgun, or they were in violation. In practice, it was only enforced against black citizens.

Time and again we have seen governments restrict the rights of one seemingly undesirable group of citizens or another through these schemes. It's why I look at all rights infringement with suspicion.

[Olle]

Originally Posted by Caferacer

Separating crimes committed with firearms, vs all crimes of violence committed invariably leads to inaccurate conclusions,
While you are more likely to be shot in the US than say England
You are three times more likely to be a victim of violent crime in England than the US
And a person stabbed or beaten to death, is no better off than a person shot to death
And when you factor in a person who has the right to own a firearm for self defence, and chooses to exercise that right, the odds of being a victim of violent crime are nearly non existent,
Even factoring in that a person who chooses to commit an act of violence, who also owns a firearm, will choose to use that firearm to commit said act of violence, the same person without access to a firearm can still commit rape robbery murder or suicide.

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics". The rate of shootings was 0% in 1000 BC, and that proves that the lack of guns equals a peaceful society.

In the same fashion, the anti-gun lobby chants "no guns - no shootings", and of course: It would be rather difficult to argue that this is not true. But change that to "no guns - no violence/murders/robberies" etc and you'll find that the statement actually becomes rather ludicrous. You need to be pretty darn naive to believe that gun control is the end all be all solution to the violence in our society, it runs much deeper than that. If there is a will, there is a way, and no gun control measures can change that.

[RShaw]

Very true Olle- well put.
That being said, I really hope we in the Netherlands can continue to shoot and enjoy firearms for sport, hunting and/or collecting.... every so often the EEC gets into the act, trying to curtail firearm ownership even more, which is followed by vigorous protest from the 'firearm world" because we can easily see that the ideas proposed follow the same lines as your comments Olle, and because we can also see that those trying to increase gun regulation have no idea how the firearm world really works. Then the protests subside, and we go back to "business as usual." We do need some "fences," which we now have.... but tighter. higher fences will not be really productive. As you say, there are other and deeper things playng here.

You all have a nice day....

[Big Fre]

We are lucky that Europe still has a very large amount of gun-manufacturers, and that they off course lobby against strickter European rules for all European countrys, that I believe is the only reason that gun-laws haven't been restrickted more, and I hope it doens't happen ever,

The rules in Belgium are a bit easyer than in the Netherlands, but still quite difficult, we do have soms type of self-defence rules, we are allowed to carry our gun as we please inside of our house, and if a burglar brakes in and we would use a gun to protect ourselves, that would be legal, in theory when we drive from home to the club and someone stops you to rob you or carjack you, you would be allowed to use your gun, problem is it has to be transported in a sealed case with empty mags and the ammo in seperate case, in the trunk of the car, so it would be kind of hard to get the gun loaded and ready to fire

[mrerick]

It all comes down to how much your government is organized to trust it's law abiding citizens.

The laws don't apply to the criminals and terrorists because they already intend to violate laws to complete more violent crimes. The laws just make it easier for them to complete their crimes. The thing that has changed is that the anti-gun anti-lawful citizen laws clearly cannot protect citizens from escalating violence.

Recent analysis shows that the results don't really improve things for law abiding citizens in Europe. I know John Lott, and respect his work:

http://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/com...us-and-europe/

[ithacaartist]

Latin America, Africa, Russia, and many areas in Southeast Asia are more dangerous still!

[Jim Mac]

Its interesting to see the rules of different countries. Its like the differences of gun laws state to state in the US. As a example here in arizona you can go to the local swap meet and find a AK, AR or a nice handgun. Technically the seller should ask if the buyer is a resident of the state, collect the cash and hand the weapon over to the new owner. Say the buyer just bought a P08 luger, they can load the magazine, and carry it concealed on the way home and its perfectly legal.
Funny thing is the swap meet has signs posted about carrying guns but allows the sales of guns. Jim