New project: Luger re-barreled to .45 GAP

[DonVoigt]

I got a 5" .45 GAP barrel with .45 size breech block a while back from Ed Tinker, made by "Lugerman".

It was un-chambered but threaded and in hopes of ultimately being able to design a magazine/feed device , I chose to chamber to the shorter .45 GAP cartridge.

Barrel took a little tweaking, GT re-cut the threads to deepen them to fit a well used and ugly receiver I had for the project. Thanks GT.. He finished it this past week and I spent the weekend getting it to the single shot test stage it is in now.

Fired it today, twice, worked fine. Had no extractor or ejector at the test firing, but as it went well I have added them this pm and will test their function as the next step in "development".

The design and implementation of a feeding device will take some thinking and time, as the .45 is too large in diameter for a typical magazine- will likely use the opening itself as the body - with some sort of feed lips added to the frame. Or not. I'll be re-studying the pictures of the way others have approached the challenge. Ideas welcome!!!!

Some pictures of the pieces and project are below.

When fired today I used a 42 vintage Mauser lower. the "tape" test compared with a 9mm shooter is shown, the .45 is on the right. Also shown with a 9mm G Date Mauser for size comparison.

Recoil was noticably "stronger", not sharp like a 9mm but just "robust"!

[Puretexan]

Really nice. Wonder if you could design a stripper clip and use something like a broom
handle mauser design. Might not work but lots of rifles and pistols got away from a
mag that was removable to a self contained one.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Puretexan

Really nice. Wonder if you could design a stripper clip and use something like a broom
handle mauser design. Might not work but lots of rifles and pistols got away from a
mag that was removable to a self contained one.

That is one option; usually that only works with a double stack mag though. There just is not enough room in the luger mag well.

Some folks got around the problem and there are single stack charger loading pistols, usually the feed lips are hinged or springy so the rounds can be stripped into the body.

[Edward Tinker]

Yes, my thoughts too. Over my head.

Eugene has a four inch and five inch he is making me, these were ideas that Eugene played with before the 45 acp complete pistols he is making him. He had five or six sets and I traded, bought parts from him. I traded these parts to Don with ulterior motives, since he is much more handy than I am .

I'll do a write up after I get my guns back from Eugene, mine will be one 45 acp and one 45 gap. Both single shots. I am a forty five guy at heart

[Puretexan]

Maybe you could copy the design that guy is using to make a 45 cal luger. He got past it somehow. I really didn't study that one as I don't have 4 or 5 grand to invest in his pistol at the moment. Got a good start and I'm sure you will come up with the answer.
Sometimes a Mexican dish with extra salsa, late at night, will give you the answer in a dream.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Puretexan

Maybe you could copy the design that guy is using to make a 45 cal luger. He got past it somehow. I really didn't study that one as I don't have 4 or 5 grand to invest in his pistol at the moment. Got a good start and I'm sure you will come up with the answer.
Sometimes a Mexican dish with extra salsa, late at night, will give you the answer in a dream.

John,
Eugene solved the magazine problem by up-sizing the entire frame; i.e. he made it bigger!

So there is room for a "real" magazine in his new made pistol, which is a little larger in all dimensions than the norm.

He may have kept some of the operating parts the same size, like striker, safety- but I don't know for sure.

[sheepherder]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

So there is room for a "real" magazine in his new made pistol, which is a little larger in all dimensions than the norm.

Cool project!

Don, IIRC one of the old members posted that he had opened up the magwell width-wise with a broach to take a .45 magazine (I don't recall what magazine). It shouldn't take too much. The .45 GAP should be good length-wise.

I think that .45 Luger shows up in the Random Album Pics every so often.

[lfid]

Don,
very cool - good luck with the project !!!

GT and Ed and Lugerman - way to go gappers !

I think I like the 45 gap since the 45 acp frame is wider lengthwise - and it seems that the P08 frame is already at the limit of reasonable trigger contact relationship with trigger finger

Werle has some 45 acp luger conversion pictures on his web site and also some utube 45 luger videos - 45 acp cartridge is fed into a port on right side thru grip - which seems likely suitable for 45 gap also. So might be an alternative to top loading like Wyatt.

Also, there are patent drawings on the web of the Wyatt-Imthurm 45 acp luger conversion inc the internal magazine details .

Happy projects !
Bill

[LugerMan.com]

Don,
Thanks for bringing this old project back to life.

Now Ed who is patiently waiting for his 2 guns to be finished ,will be less patient I am sure.

I still got some sets of the GAP conversions sitting around, Ed did not get them all, if anyone cares for it.

[Ron Wood]

It would be a bit difficult to use a stripper clip implementation on a Luger as there isn't a convenient place to attach the clip. Using the frame as a magazine is probably the best way to go, a la the Wyatt .45 conversions. A slot in the grip panel, a hole in the follower and a rod to insert in the hole to use like the thumb button on a Luger magazine makes loading a pretty easy process.
Nice work so far Don!
Ron

[Neil Young]

Impressive work Don.

[unitedcs]

Very cool project, where did you get the bolt or did you make it yourself

[Rick W.]

I have always wondered how the Wyatt handled the toggle hold open, with no removable magazine. I believe the Wyatt is loaded from the top with assistance of a removable crossbar in the grip slots, so Wyatt must have overcome all of that static toggle stuff.

I have a copy of the Wyatt patent, but not paid enough attention to figure that out on the toggle hold open jazz, maybe a source of info.

I remember a 45 GAP custom Luger on this site. I was very impressed with the craftsmanship in it, but it truly was custom and the guy doing it, knew how.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by unitedcs

Very cool project, where did you get the bolt or did you make it yourself

Lugerman , Eugene Golubtsov, made the breech block and turned the barrel.

[Ron Wood]

I hadn't thought about the hold-open on a Wyatt. Good question. Hope you can dig out the patent and figure it out!
Ron

[Ron Wood]

I found the patent. Wyatt (or Imthurn) modified the original hold-open by putting a tab on it that is activated by the follower rather than a magazine button. Cool!

[Rick W.]

Yeah, simple and relatively elegant.......seems logical........probably works too.

all these year, if it would have been an alligator, it would have gotten me............appreciate the nudge.

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I found the patent. Wyatt (or Imthurn) modified the original hold-open by putting a tab on it that is activated by the follower rather than a magazine button. Cool!

And an elegant solution!

Rich,
thanks for the pictures and the link!
Very interesting "Stoeger" .45 luger.

[sheepherder]

Don, I think this is the .45 Luger that pops up occasionally...Lemme see if it'll link...It's in the Members gallery...They're BIG pics...


http://forum.lugerforum.com/gallery2...?g2_itemId=787

[DonVoigt]

Update 8-8-2017

Just back from the range, still single shot ; BUT extracts and ejection is fine! Hold open works, so makes it fairly easy to load one round at a time.

Now if I can just "figure" out a magazine!