First Luger; having issues

Olddog84 · 09-24-2014, 05:25 PM

OK,
New to the forum and the Luger. Bought a '20 era commercial in 30 Luger. Using Fiocchi factory 30 ammo and 3 different mags; original and 2 Mecgar. Gun does not run with any mag. Always the same malfunction; the round try to feed nose high and jam nose up against the barrel hood. When single fed the toggle will not lock open on an empty mag. When hand cycling it looks to me like the toggle is not coming back far enough to let the mag come to full elevation. When i hand cycle and bring the toggle all the way back it will feed fine. I think the mainspring is too strong, but if anyone has any other ideas i would certainly appreciate any advice.
Mike

mrerick · 09-24-2014, 08:34 PM

IIRC, these Lugers did use a weaker mainspring, of perhaps 17 to 18 coils. You can get a range of recoil springs from Wolff and try the lighter one. If you go too light, you'll start seeing the back heel of the toggle impacting the rear of the frame. You can use a little masking tape to see how hard it's hitting that area.

Check the lubrication and cleaning in the area of the hold open. It is possible that your hold open lever is missing from the frame.

Double check to be sure that the recoil link from the receiver to the recoil lever in the frame is properly seated.

Marc

rhuff · 09-25-2014, 03:54 PM

I agree with Marc 100%. You have an 'unknown Luger' meaning you have no idea what springs, etc. are in this luger. The first and foremost thing to do, is break it down(Utube has videos of how to do it) for a good cleaning and lube. Be VERY careful removing the LEFT grip panel, as it is easy to break in the area of the thumb safety. I can not overstate this......Lugers do not like to be dirty and/or dry.

After that, if still having problems, then I would change the recoil and firing pin springs with new ones. Wolff springs have some of the correct springs at a very reasonable price.

Since it is happening with three different mags, it is most likely not the mag unless they are old with tired mag springs.

Are you using Fiocchi FMJ or JSP ammo? Some Lugers do not play well with the JSP ammo....others do o.k. with it.

Olddog84 · 09-25-2014, 07:54 PM

Ok guys, need more help please. I have taken it completely apart and cleaned and oiled the Luger. I have now replaced the mainspring with a new wolff standard power spring. Put the weaker wolff in first. The gun does not run right with either. Now the empty case is failing to eject the case, which usually smokestacks. The toggle does not seem to come back far enough to eject empty cases and pick a new round up from the mag. Will not lock back on an mag unless hand cycled. The ejector looked like it had some wear marks on it so i tweaked it and lessened tension on the ejector. No difference. The toggle seems to be running smooth within the receiver. Can the mag hold open be impinging on the toggle? I dont see any marks on it but I am out of ideas.
Mike

DavidJayUden · 09-25-2014, 08:35 PM

Sounds like too much mainspring to me (or weak ammo). But if you question the hold-open, simply remove it. No harm there.
What ammo are you using?
What did the gun do with the weaker spring?
Also, there are less windings to the .30 spring, so count those on both.
Holding the gun very tightly I assume?
It would be interesting to devise a way to determine how far back the toggle is traveling.
dju

nukem556 · 09-25-2014, 09:22 PM

You may have a weak extractor spring causing the ejection problems. Test the total toggle travel by putting some wet nail polish on the underside of the rear toggle piece tang and a fresh piece of masking tape on the back of the frame and shoot it. If it's marked, the toggle is going back as far as it can go. As far as feeding problems, you may have a worn mag catch causing all or your mags to sit too low...long shot, but hey.

kurusu · 09-26-2014, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukem556

As far as feeding problems, you may have a worn mag catch causing all or your mags to sit too low...long shot, but hey.

You could be on to something. These failures to feed really look mag related.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-26-2014, 03:47 PM

As far as feeding problems, you may have a worn mag catch causing all or your mags to sit too low.

When shooting use a two handed grip..push the palm of your non shooting hand under the magazine bottom, firmly pushing up while firing. See if there are any changes in the cartridge feeding into the chamber.

rhuff · 09-26-2014, 04:51 PM

Does the extractor(not ejector) tip(both claws) look normal? I have experienced a couple of broken extractor tips(only one of the two claws each time) over the years of shooting Lugers. Also, the extractor spring is a stout unit, and it should take a fair bit of pressure to lift the extractor to it's fullest extent. The extractor groove can get very contaminated with "goop" after multiple shootings and no cleanings. This crud can limit the full movement of the extractor and cause jamming.

What ammo are you trying to shoot. Many on this forum have had good luck with Winchester White Box(115 or 124 FMJ), PMC 115 FMJ and S&B 124 FMJ. The Russian Wolf, WPA, etc does not play well with Lugers in most situations.

09-24-2014, 05:25 PM	#1
Olddog84 New User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First Luger; having issues OK, New to the forum and the Luger. Bought a '20 era commercial in 30 Luger. Using Fiocchi factory 30 ammo and 3 different mags; original and 2 Mecgar. Gun does not run with any mag. Always the same malfunction; the round try to feed nose high and jam nose up against the barrel hood. When single fed the toggle will not lock open on an empty mag. When hand cycling it looks to me like the toggle is not coming back far enough to let the mag come to full elevation. When i hand cycle and bring the toggle all the way back it will feed fine. I think the mainspring is too strong, but if anyone has any other ideas i would certainly appreciate any advice. Mike

09-24-2014, 08:34 PM	#2
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	IIRC, these Lugers did use a weaker mainspring, of perhaps 17 to 18 coils. You can get a range of recoil springs from Wolff and try the lighter one. If you go too light, you'll start seeing the back heel of the toggle impacting the rear of the frame. You can use a little masking tape to see how hard it's hitting that area. Check the lubrication and cleaning in the area of the hold open. It is possible that your hold open lever is missing from the frame. Double check to be sure that the recoil link from the receiver to the recoil lever in the frame is properly seated. Marc __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

09-26-2014, 03:47 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	As far as feeding problems, you may have a worn mag catch causing all or your mags to sit too low. When shooting use a two handed grip..push the palm of your non shooting hand under the magazine bottom, firmly pushing up while firing. See if there are any changes in the cartridge feeding into the chamber. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-25-2014, 03:54 PM	#3
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,308 Thanks: 2,737 Thanked 993 Times in 729 Posts	I agree with Marc 100%. You have an 'unknown Luger' meaning you have no idea what springs, etc. are in this luger. The first and foremost thing to do, is break it down(Utube has videos of how to do it) for a good cleaning and lube. Be VERY careful removing the LEFT grip panel, as it is easy to break in the area of the thumb safety. I can not overstate this......Lugers do not like to be dirty and/or dry. After that, if still having problems, then I would change the recoil and firing pin springs with new ones. Wolff springs have some of the correct springs at a very reasonable price. Since it is happening with three different mags, it is most likely not the mag unless they are old with tired mag springs. Are you using Fiocchi FMJ or JSP ammo? Some Lugers do not play well with the JSP ammo....others do o.k. with it.

09-25-2014, 07:54 PM	#4
Olddog84 New User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ok guys, need more help please. I have taken it completely apart and cleaned and oiled the Luger. I have now replaced the mainspring with a new wolff standard power spring. Put the weaker wolff in first. The gun does not run right with either. Now the empty case is failing to eject the case, which usually smokestacks. The toggle does not seem to come back far enough to eject empty cases and pick a new round up from the mag. Will not lock back on an mag unless hand cycled. The ejector looked like it had some wear marks on it so i tweaked it and lessened tension on the ejector. No difference. The toggle seems to be running smooth within the receiver. Can the mag hold open be impinging on the toggle? I dont see any marks on it but I am out of ideas. Mike

09-25-2014, 08:35 PM	#5
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Sounds like too much mainspring to me (or weak ammo). But if you question the hold-open, simply remove it. No harm there. What ammo are you using? What did the gun do with the weaker spring? Also, there are less windings to the .30 spring, so count those on both. Holding the gun very tightly I assume? It would be interesting to devise a way to determine how far back the toggle is traveling. dju

09-25-2014, 09:22 PM	#6
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	You may have a weak extractor spring causing the ejection problems. Test the total toggle travel by putting some wet nail polish on the underside of the rear toggle piece tang and a fresh piece of masking tape on the back of the frame and shoot it. If it's marked, the toggle is going back as far as it can go. As far as feeding problems, you may have a worn mag catch causing all or your mags to sit too low...long shot, but hey.

09-26-2014, 04:51 PM	#9
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,308 Thanks: 2,737 Thanked 993 Times in 729 Posts	Does the extractor(not ejector) tip(both claws) look normal? I have experienced a couple of broken extractor tips(only one of the two claws each time) over the years of shooting Lugers. Also, the extractor spring is a stout unit, and it should take a fair bit of pressure to lift the extractor to it's fullest extent. The extractor groove can get very contaminated with "goop" after multiple shootings and no cleanings. This crud can limit the full movement of the extractor and cause jamming. What ammo are you trying to shoot. Many on this forum have had good luck with Winchester White Box(115 or 124 FMJ), PMC 115 FMJ and S&B 124 FMJ. The Russian Wolf, WPA, etc does not play well with Lugers in most situations.