Repro & Illegal...???

Pete Ebbink · 05-30-2007, 12:36 PM

Leather is a repro with the extra vertical belt loop on the back...a stock for a 4" luger is probably a big No-No with BATF...

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-Luger-Hol...QQcmdZViewItem

Navy · 05-30-2007, 05:20 PM

That appears to be one of those Paki made-up kluges. Run away.

Tom A

ratdog · 05-30-2007, 05:28 PM

Duffys Guns is the seller, should they not be aware if something is wrong or illegal afoot here?!?!?!?!?!

Ron Wood · 05-30-2007, 05:42 PM

It isn't illegal to sell it, just illegal to attach it to a 4" barrel Luger.

John Sabato · 05-30-2007, 06:15 PM

There are some in ATF that would view possession of this rig AND a 4 inch Luger with a stock lug as "constructive intent"... I would be Afraid, VERY Afraid to own this rig... And a Luger.

lugerholsterrepair · 05-30-2007, 08:50 PM

Who would be foolish enough to own this Paki goat bag and house siding anyway? A true collector would do as Brother Tom has suggested..Then you wouldn't have to worry about John's suggestion. Jerry Burney

EagleArmsHBAR · 05-31-2007, 09:02 PM

why is it illegal??

Stu · 05-31-2007, 09:10 PM

It's illegal as the only common lugers you can attach a stock to without it becoming a 'short barrelled rifle' are the artillery or navy models. You can only use a genuine or reproduction of the artillery or navy stock under this provision.

Ron Smith · 06-01-2007, 09:03 AM

It's only illegal, if you do attach it however.

Ron Wood · 06-01-2007, 10:28 AM

Ron,
"Attaching" is a fine point and probably wouldn't hold up with the BATF. As John pointed out having a stock and a 4" Luger together, whether attached or not, constitutes the components of a short barreled rifle and therefore constructive intent. If, however, you also have the proper Luger for that stock in the same collection, you are home free.

Ron Smith · 06-01-2007, 10:40 AM

Ron,

My interpretation and understanding of "Constructive Intent" pertains to Class III weapons, for example having an AR-15, M-1A, or other civilianized military style firearm, and being in poccession of full auto sear and selector which can be interchanged. Or a suppressor with a weapon that has appropriate attachment features such as threaded muzzle.

Ron

Ron Wood · 06-01-2007, 12:50 PM

Same principle applies...if you have the components for an illegal weapon then it follows you have constructive intent. I wouldn't bet my collection and a membership in Club Fed that it doesn't apply to other than Class III.

Pete Ebbink · 06-03-2007, 01:16 AM

Here is another "Paki" holster with its extra, vertical belt loop claimed to be a rare Persian holster...

Buyer beware, big time...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1

05-30-2007, 12:36 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Repro & Illegal...??? Leather is a repro with the extra vertical belt loop on the back...a stock for a 4" luger is probably a big No-No with BATF... http://cgi.ebay.com/German-Luger-Hol...QQcmdZViewItem

05-30-2007, 05:42 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	It isn't illegal to sell it, just illegal to attach it to a 4" barrel Luger. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

05-30-2007, 06:15 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,309 Times in 1,098 Posts	There are some in ATF that would view possession of this rig AND a 4 inch Luger with a stock lug as "constructive intent"... I would be Afraid, VERY Afraid to own this rig... And a Luger. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-30-2007, 08:50 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,134 Times in 1,439 Posts	Who would be foolish enough to own this Paki goat bag and house siding anyway? A true collector would do as Brother Tom has suggested..Then you wouldn't have to worry about John's suggestion. Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

06-01-2007, 09:03 AM	#9
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	It's only illegal, if you do attach it however. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

05-30-2007, 05:20 PM	#2
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	That appears to be one of those Paki made-up kluges. Run away. Tom A

05-30-2007, 05:28 PM	#3
ratdog User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 147 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Duffys Guns is the seller, should they not be aware if something is wrong or illegal afoot here?!?!?!?!?!

05-31-2007, 09:02 PM	#7
EagleArmsHBAR User Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 33 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	why is it illegal??

05-31-2007, 09:10 PM	#8
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	It's illegal as the only common lugers you can attach a stock to without it becoming a 'short barrelled rifle' are the artillery or navy models. You can only use a genuine or reproduction of the artillery or navy stock under this provision.

06-01-2007, 10:28 AM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	Ron, "Attaching" is a fine point and probably wouldn't hold up with the BATF. As John pointed out having a stock and a 4" Luger together, whether attached or not, constitutes the components of a short barreled rifle and therefore constructive intent. If, however, you also have the proper Luger for that stock in the same collection, you are home free. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-01-2007, 10:40 AM	#11
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Ron, My interpretation and understanding of "Constructive Intent" pertains to Class III weapons, for example having an AR-15, M-1A, or other civilianized military style firearm, and being in poccession of full auto sear and selector which can be interchanged. Or a suppressor with a weapon that has appropriate attachment features such as threaded muzzle. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

06-01-2007, 12:50 PM	#12
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,051 Thanks: 1,119 Thanked 5,286 Times in 1,728 Posts	Same principle applies...if you have the components for an illegal weapon then it follows you have constructive intent. I wouldn't bet my collection and a membership in Club Fed that it doesn't apply to other than Class III. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

06-03-2007, 01:16 AM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Here is another "Paki" holster with its extra, vertical belt loop claimed to be a rare Persian holster... Buyer beware, big time... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...0%3D%26fvi%3D1