Breech Block issues

luscioman · 12-21-2010, 09:26 PM

I have 4 different shooters that i like to take the range. At this point all 3 have a damaged breech blocks. The rear of the breech block that is worn down/broken where the firing pin retainer presses against block when it is in the locked position. I spent some time looking on the site but cant really find if there is any way to fix this or if i have to just get new breech blocks. Below is a picture of one of them. As you will imagine the firing pin spring and retainer just fly out when you turn it. Below are some pictures of this.

alanint · 12-21-2010, 10:12 PM

I have seen this before but to have three out of your four shooters experience this problem is extraordinary.
Besides the unlikely possibility of faulty metallurgy in all these guns, the only other explanation I can think of is overpressured ammunition, pierced primers, etc.

Do you hand load?

luscioman · 12-22-2010, 01:04 AM

One of the guns I purchased was broken when I got it so I never added to the issue. The other two guns I did shoot. One of which I shot approx 100-200 rounds while i solved the sight issue with it. I also work at an ammunition manufacture and I have only used 115gr standard load ammunition on it. I will try to get some pictures of the other ones as well to post up. The one shown was my arty that I got 2 years ago. I have to make a correction. I have another shooter that I have probably shot 2k rounds through that has does not have this issue.

LugerVern · 12-22-2010, 06:54 AM

Weak main springs can cause this issue, the breach block can actually hit the rear of the frame in this case.

The best way would be to have a spot weld applied and then shaped.

I have tried various fillers and glues over the years and even though some held up for a while the best way I know of is to use the spot weld repair.

Good luck

Vern

sheepherder · 12-22-2010, 07:04 AM

I have had a breech block with a blown out extractor shoulder micro-welded [think of a TIG welder crossed with a microscope] and it turned out very well.

John Sabato · 12-22-2010, 08:33 AM

This type of welding should only be attempted by an metal expert who is also a machinist... If you can't find someone in that category, I recommend you replace the breechblocks.

Member THOR or LugerDoc may be able to recommend someone who can repair the breechblocks you have...

Defintely replace the main recoil spring in all three damaged guns as a precaution after affecting the repairs....

Vlim · 12-22-2010, 09:08 AM

Just a thought. Wouldn't it be possible to machine a new shoulder insert at 3 o clock rather than repair the one at 12? Because of the guide on the right side there is more metal available and it should be stronger. It would be a matter of rotating the firing pin retainer a bit further, that's all.

John Sabato · 12-22-2010, 09:22 AM

An innovative Idea Gerben... I have not seen it done before, but it would be worth a try.

...but IMHO it is still a job for a qualified machinist, not a tinker-er (If your reading this, there was no pun intended Ed (or maybe there was?)

)

Lugerdoc · 12-22-2010, 09:54 AM

Your blown BB is not uncommon; this is the area where they usually fail. In the past I've tried several welder to save a matching PO8, but few were able to successfully remove the excess weld from the inside slot in which the retaining piece turns. For shooters, I recommend the use of a Mauser relieved FP, so in the event of a puntured primer, the FP is not driven back like a piston against the rear of the BB. The easiest and probably the least expensive solution is to replace the BB. TH

Thor · 12-22-2010, 10:50 AM

Lugerdoc nailed this one! Good advice!

luscioman · 12-22-2010, 11:43 AM

Thanks for the input from everyone. Now the hunt begins for new BBs.

sheepherder · 12-22-2010, 08:35 PM

Numrich lists repro breech blocks -

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...spx?catid=3124

I was able to get an original breech block from Sarco, but it took 6 - 8 months of backorder...

nukem556 · 12-22-2010, 09:31 PM

Yep, I saw those Sarco ones too and was tempted, as I have one with a chipped extractor slot...price is right, but I'd be leery. Of every part on a Luger, I'd consider this one to be the most critical as far as hardness and dimensional tolerances....who knows where and when and by whom they were made?

sheepherder · 12-23-2010, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nukem556

Yep, I saw those Sarco ones too and was tempted...

I think you mean the Numrich ones...

Sarco doesn't show any on their site right now (that I could find), but a call/email to the order desk might yield results...

12-21-2010, 09:26 PM	#1
luscioman User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 113 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Breech Block issues I have 4 different shooters that i like to take the range. At this point all 3 have a damaged breech blocks. The rear of the breech block that is worn down/broken where the firing pin retainer presses against block when it is in the locked position. I spent some time looking on the site but cant really find if there is any way to fix this or if i have to just get new breech blocks. Below is a picture of one of them. As you will imagine the firing pin spring and retainer just fly out when you turn it. Below are some pictures of this.

12-22-2010, 07:04 AM	#5
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	I have had a breech block with a blown out extractor shoulder micro-welded [think of a TIG welder crossed with a microscope] and it turned out very well. __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

12-22-2010, 08:33 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	This type of welding should only be attempted by an metal expert who is also a machinist... If you can't find someone in that category, I recommend you replace the breechblocks. Member THOR or LugerDoc may be able to recommend someone who can repair the breechblocks you have... Defintely replace the main recoil spring in all three damaged guns as a precaution after affecting the repairs.... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-22-2010, 09:22 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	An innovative Idea Gerben... I have not seen it done before, but it would be worth a try. ...but IMHO it is still a job for a qualified machinist, not a tinker-er (If your reading this, there was no pun intended Ed (or maybe there was?) ) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-22-2010, 09:54 AM	#9
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Your blown BB is not uncommon; this is the area where they usually fail. In the past I've tried several welder to save a matching PO8, but few were able to successfully remove the excess weld from the inside slot in which the retaining piece turns. For shooters, I recommend the use of a Mauser relieved FP, so in the event of a puntured primer, the FP is not driven back like a piston against the rear of the BB. The easiest and probably the least expensive solution is to replace the BB. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-21-2010, 10:12 PM	#2
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	I have seen this before but to have three out of your four shooters experience this problem is extraordinary. Besides the unlikely possibility of faulty metallurgy in all these guns, the only other explanation I can think of is overpressured ammunition, pierced primers, etc. Do you hand load?

12-22-2010, 01:04 AM	#3
luscioman User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 113 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	One of the guns I purchased was broken when I got it so I never added to the issue. The other two guns I did shoot. One of which I shot approx 100-200 rounds while i solved the sight issue with it. I also work at an ammunition manufacture and I have only used 115gr standard load ammunition on it. I will try to get some pictures of the other ones as well to post up. The one shown was my arty that I got 2 years ago. I have to make a correction. I have another shooter that I have probably shot 2k rounds through that has does not have this issue.

12-22-2010, 06:54 AM	#4
LugerVern User Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 563 Thanks: 1 Thanked 34 Times in 27 Posts	Weak main springs can cause this issue, the breach block can actually hit the rear of the frame in this case. The best way would be to have a spot weld applied and then shaped. I have tried various fillers and glues over the years and even though some held up for a while the best way I know of is to use the spot weld repair. Good luck Vern

12-22-2010, 09:08 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Just a thought. Wouldn't it be possible to machine a new shoulder insert at 3 o clock rather than repair the one at 12? Because of the guide on the right side there is more metal available and it should be stronger. It would be a matter of rotating the firing pin retainer a bit further, that's all.

12-22-2010, 10:50 AM	#10
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Lugerdoc nailed this one! Good advice! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-22-2010, 11:43 AM	#11
luscioman User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 113 Thanks: 1 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Thanks for the input from everyone. Now the hunt begins for new BBs.

12-22-2010, 08:35 PM	#12
sheepherder Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: ...on the 'ol Erie Canal... Posts: 8,197 Thanks: 1,416 Thanked 4,462 Times in 2,336 Posts	Numrich lists repro breech blocks - http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/...spx?catid=3124 I was able to get an original breech block from Sarco, but it took 6 - 8 months of backorder... __________________ I like my coffee the way I like my women... ...Cold and bitter...

12-22-2010, 09:31 PM	#13
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Yep, I saw those Sarco ones too and was tempted, as I have one with a chipped extractor slot...price is right, but I'd be leery. Of every part on a Luger, I'd consider this one to be the most critical as far as hardness and dimensional tolerances....who knows where and when and by whom they were made?