Presentation Carbine

Ron Wood · 12-19-2005, 05:50 PM

Here are some pictures of the Ormond Smith Carbine that have graciously been furnished by the current owner, John Eckert of Albuquerque, NM. Ormond Smith was a partner of the prominent publishing house of Street & Smith. It was presented in September of 1902 and has a 5-position tangent or "ski-slope" rear sight. On the rear sight, the small depression in front of the sight blade is gold filled. Unlike the smooth pushbutton of the flat board 7" Luger stocks, the presentation carbine stock pushbutton is checkered. The serial number of the gun is 77. Truly a collecting treasure.

mauro · 12-19-2005, 05:57 PM

Absolutely impressive!
Thank you for share this beauty.
Mauro

Edward Tinker · 12-19-2005, 06:10 PM

whoa, very nice, afraid to ask Mr. Smith how she shoots!

Very nice, thanks for sharing Mr. Smiths carbine,

ed

Ron Wood · 12-19-2005, 06:55 PM

Mr. Smith is long dead, but I doubt that Mr. Eckert is going to shoot it either!

Rod WMG · 12-19-2005, 07:02 PM

Very beautiful! I really like the initialing on the chamber .

Ron Wood · 12-19-2005, 10:42 PM

A boar hunt with a Carbine would be a hoot! It was originally intended as a hunting weapon for Kaiser Bill since he had a withered left arm as the result of a birth injury and therefore had difficulty holding a full sized rifle. Probably wouldn't want to use this particular carbine though, since its value is somewhere between $80,000 and $100,000!

drbuster · 12-19-2005, 11:13 PM

Thanks, Ron, for sharing these pictures with us. Would love to see any of the previous 76 1900 carbines!

Ron Smith · 12-20-2005, 10:02 AM

Tom,

Do you reload? Or do you know someone that you trust to reload properly?

This is my favorite .30 Luger load. If functions flawlessly and is very accurate.

100gr Hornady XTP hollow point

3.9 to 4.1 grains of 700X

I start out with 3.7 grains in an unknown pistol and work my way up watching for pressure signs. 3.9 grains is the best average I have found.

A carbine may work fine with the 4.1 charge. Or even higher.

<JUST FOR THE RECORD>
( ~A cover my a** disclaimer, for this age of litigation.~ I am not recommending this load to anyone, and will not be held responsible. Use at your own risk. I have used it with excellent results in several vintage .30 Lugers.)

Ron

Rod WMG · 12-20-2005, 02:48 PM

Tom, I'm sure glad you switched from "bores" to "boars;" otherwise, I might have been in real trouble!

policeluger · 12-20-2005, 04:37 PM

Perhaps he was right the first time

Aaron · 12-20-2005, 07:42 PM

Tom, I have about 50 factory boxes of OLD .30 Luger ammo. If I can find any hollow points I'll let you know.

Navy · 12-20-2005, 10:12 PM

hey Rod,

I shoot BOTH; I am a non-discriminating, equal opportunity shootist.

For Aaron, if the ammo is pre-1930, I'd be interested in adding it to my vintage ammo collection, not shooting it. I will either find some modern or teach myself handloading using the esteemed mr Smith's recipe.

Tom A

Ponyman · 12-22-2005, 05:38 PM

Technical question regarding the Luger Carbines:

Obviously, the wooden forend doesn't travel with the barrel. Does anyone have a photo of a Carbine with the wood removed, showing how the attachment is made?

Ron Wood · 12-22-2005, 06:17 PM

Like this?

Ponyman · 12-23-2005, 04:26 PM

YES! Thank you, Ron!

I knew the Luger was ahead of its time.
But a floating barrel in 1902???

Fantastic!

Pete Ebbink · 03-08-2006, 06:14 PM

H Ron,

This carbine's chamber engraving looks a lot like the work on a "presentation" piece the folks at PIA had for sale on their web site a while back...

Regarding this carbine case...is it period correct to have dividers or should it be the "french" style...where pieces are outlined and recessed into the velvet lining...?

Also...don't most of the cased presentation pieces have room for spare magazines ?

(Photos taken off of Gun-Broker and not the copyrighted PIA site...)

12-19-2005, 05:50 PM	#1
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Presentation Carbine Here are some pictures of the Ormond Smith Carbine that have graciously been furnished by the current owner, John Eckert of Albuquerque, NM. Ormond Smith was a partner of the prominent publishing house of Street & Smith. It was presented in September of 1902 and has a 5-position tangent or "ski-slope" rear sight. On the rear sight, the small depression in front of the sight blade is gold filled. Unlike the smooth pushbutton of the flat board 7" Luger stocks, the presentation carbine stock pushbutton is checkered. The serial number of the gun is 77. Truly a collecting treasure. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-19-2005, 05:57 PM	#2
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 349 Times in 129 Posts	Absolutely impressive! Thank you for share this beauty. Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

12-19-2005, 06:55 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Mr. Smith is long dead, but I doubt that Mr. Eckert is going to shoot it either! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-19-2005, 10:42 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	A boar hunt with a Carbine would be a hoot! It was originally intended as a hunting weapon for Kaiser Bill since he had a withered left arm as the result of a birth injury and therefore had difficulty holding a full sized rifle. Probably wouldn't want to use this particular carbine though, since its value is somewhere between $80,000 and $100,000! __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-20-2005, 10:02 AM	#8
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Tom, Do you reload? Or do you know someone that you trust to reload properly? This is my favorite .30 Luger load. If functions flawlessly and is very accurate. 100gr Hornady XTP hollow point 3.9 to 4.1 grains of 700X I start out with 3.7 grains in an unknown pistol and work my way up watching for pressure signs. 3.9 grains is the best average I have found. A carbine may work fine with the 4.1 charge. Or even higher. <JUST FOR THE RECORD> ( ~A cover my a disclaimer, for this age of litigation.~ I am not recommending this load to anyone, and will not be held responsible. Use at your own risk. I have used it with excellent results in several vintage .30 Lugers.) Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~** said...

12-19-2005, 06:10 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,992 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	whoa, very nice, afraid to ask Mr. Smith how she shoots! Very nice, thanks for sharing Mr. Smiths carbine, ed

12-19-2005, 07:02 PM	#5
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Very beautiful! I really like the initialing on the chamber .

12-19-2005, 11:13 PM	#7
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks, Ron, for sharing these pictures with us. Would love to see any of the previous 76 1900 carbines!

12-20-2005, 02:48 PM	#9
Rod WMG User Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The Edge of Texas Posts: 514 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom, I'm sure glad you switched from "bores" to "boars;" otherwise, I might have been in real trouble!

12-20-2005, 04:37 PM	#10
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Perhaps he was right the first time

12-20-2005, 07:42 PM	#11
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Tom, I have about 50 factory boxes of OLD .30 Luger ammo. If I can find any hollow points I'll let you know.

12-20-2005, 10:12 PM	#12
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	hey Rod, I shoot BOTH; I am a non-discriminating, equal opportunity shootist. For Aaron, if the ammo is pre-1930, I'd be interested in adding it to my vintage ammo collection, not shooting it. I will either find some modern or teach myself handloading using the esteemed mr Smith's recipe. Tom A

12-22-2005, 05:38 PM	#13
Ponyman User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlantic County, NJ, USA Posts: 138 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Technical question regarding the Luger Carbines: Obviously, the wooden forend doesn't travel with the barrel. Does anyone have a photo of a Carbine with the wood removed, showing how the attachment is made? __________________ "The Constitution is intended for use by a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other." ~ John Quincy Adams

12-22-2005, 06:17 PM	#14
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,989 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	Like this? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

12-23-2005, 04:26 PM	#15
Ponyman User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Atlantic County, NJ, USA Posts: 138 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	YES! Thank you, Ron! I knew the Luger was ahead of its time. But a floating barrel in 1902??? Fantastic! __________________ "The Constitution is intended for use by a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for the governance of any other." ~ John Quincy Adams

03-08-2006, 06:14 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	H Ron, This carbine's chamber engraving looks a lot like the work on a "presentation" piece the folks at PIA had for sale on their web site a while back... Regarding this carbine case...is it period correct to have dividers or should it be the "french" style...where pieces are outlined and recessed into the velvet lining...? Also...don't most of the cased presentation pieces have room for spare magazines ? (Photos taken off of Gun-Broker and not the copyrighted PIA site...)