Cleaning Rod

George · 09-30-2002, 02:53 PM

Help! I have come across a brass cleaning rod with steel oil bottle for a handle. The brass cleaning rod is 7" long ,with the oil bottle being milled from solid bar stock and blued. There are no markings of any type and no proof marks on it. Can anybody help me identify this tool and if it is original or a repo? When I get my camera back I'll post a photo, TTFN.

(this post edited by John Sabato to display the photos rather than just give the URL)

George <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

John Sabato · 09-30-2002, 03:41 PM

George,

Although your description is not bad... nothing works like a photo.

Can you post a photo of your cleaning rod? You can scan the cleaning rod with a flatbed scanner if you don't have access to a digital camera...

Just a shot in the dark... does it look like this photo?

Rjennings · 09-30-2002, 10:44 PM

I have a 6 inch cleaning rod that looks like that one. What is the background of this type rod, as opposed to the loop kind. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Edward Tinker · 10-01-2002, 12:47 AM

I know that I have a reproduction artillery that looks mostly like that on the barrel end, but other than that....

Ron Wood · 10-01-2002, 01:56 AM

Cleaning rods with oilers were available for any length barrel, from 4" to carbine. They were usually associated with commercial Lugers as part of a cased set, either presentation or salesman samples. They were also issued with Dutch and Portuguese Lugers. The rod may be of brass or blued steel.

John Sabato · 10-04-2002, 10:48 AM

Really Nice Photographs altera6

This cleaning rod is in really good condition.

Probably Portugese or commercial like Ron Wood said.

I wonder if it could also be from a Finnish Luger set? Any other opinions out there... or maybe even somebody with the facts! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Doubs · 10-04-2002, 01:16 PM

Just a point of interest. I purchased an M2 Portugese Luger rig a few years ago from a collector who said he'd owned it since it was brought into the country in the 1960's. The cleaning rod is exactly as the one shown in this thread. When I opened the "oil" can, I noted that it's about half full of grease which I think is likely original. Was the container intended to hold grease or oil? Or maybe both according to need?

Imperial Arms · 10-04-2002, 03:24 PM

The reservoir was meant to hold grease.

Albert

mauro · 10-04-2002, 04:03 PM

This is my cleaning rod with oil bottle:

fixed by Ed [img]smile.gif[/img]

Albert, if you remember, I show you this item last year in Paris.
Ciao
Mauro

George · 10-04-2002, 04:16 PM

So, Is my cleaning rod the real deal or not?

George

Doubs · 10-04-2002, 05:38 PM

[quote]Originally posted by altera6:
<strong>So, Is my cleaning rod the real deal or not?
George</strong><hr></blockquote>

It certainly appears to be original and in excellent condition besides. IMO, it's the 'real deal".

Navy · 10-04-2002, 09:31 PM

There are some nicely done fakes floating around. A key thing to look for is, on the fakes, the distinction between the blued steel oiler/greaser and the brass rod is crimped as opposed to being a threaded, nearly invisible joint.

Tom A
Who has an original carbine cleaning rod FS on Ebay

wterrell · 10-24-2002, 10:11 PM

This is the cleaning rod/oiler that my daughter purchased for me.

It is indeed of original manufacture, but not original configuration. The shaft was apparently broken off in the upper section. It is shortened, rethreaded, and soldered into the upper section.

To blend the brass to the steel nipple, both were turned while assembled after solder. A gradual slight taper starts about 1/2 inch from the nipple and continues straight on the nipple to the band. The nipple is cold blued. If you look at the second photo in the first post of this thread, and reposted here, you can see the ring of solder at the juncture of the brass and steel.

Overall, this is a piece of trash, but I do not have the heart to tell my daughter, so I will proudly display this gobbed together piece until my daughters have completed their degrees. Some things are more important than Lugers.

Edward Tinker · 10-24-2002, 10:41 PM

A beauty! I'd display this with pride.

Your daughters are FAR more important than any ole Luger and how many would think to get something like this.

Display it with pride, its the thought that counts. [img]smile.gif[/img]

John Sabato · 10-25-2002, 10:45 AM

I am very curious...I have never examined a cleaning rod like this first hand.

If the tool is made of a combination of brass and steel, how is an original rod attached to the nipple? It is soldered? or crimped? or how?

policeluger · 10-26-2002, 11:36 AM

John, in addition too a few complete rods, I have a berrel only, no rod and no cap with dipper. The barrel or drum, what ever it is called, is female threaded to receive a male threaded rod. Hope I used the correct wording.

John Sabato · 10-29-2002, 10:05 AM

From your description then, would it be reasonable to presume that the solder used on the rod pictured here was a method to permanently secure the brass rod to the threaded nipple? Could this be a repair, or original methodology for assembly?

Thanks...

policeluger · 10-29-2002, 10:47 AM

This is a repair, it is not original. There was no solder used. Hope all is well with your daughter, we pray for your family.

John Sabato · 10-29-2002, 11:19 AM

Thanks for your speedy reply and your sentiments Howard... both are much appreciated.

wterrell · 10-29-2002, 10:08 PM

I am sitting here looking at the cleaning rod and it looks like solder to me. Silver colored.
What about the cold blue, and the machining?
Was this sold to someone without telling them that this was a repair?
That is quite a bit unethical, don't you think?

There are two ways to interpret policeluger's post and I have taken one of them.

The other reply would be: You mean that there was no solder used in the original assembly of cleaning rods?

09-30-2002, 02:53 PM	#1
George User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Cleaning Rod Help! I have come across a brass cleaning rod with steel oil bottle for a handle. The brass cleaning rod is 7" long ,with the oil bottle being milled from solid bar stock and blued. There are no markings of any type and no proof marks on it. Can anybody help me identify this tool and if it is original or a repo? When I get my camera back I'll post a photo, TTFN. (this post edited by John Sabato to display the photos rather than just give the URL) George <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />

09-30-2002, 03:41 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	George, Although your description is not bad... nothing works like a photo. Can you post a photo of your cleaning rod? You can scan the cleaning rod with a flatbed scanner if you don't have access to a digital camera... Just a shot in the dark... does it look like this photo? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2002, 12:47 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	I know that I have a reproduction artillery that looks mostly like that on the barrel end, but other than that.... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-01-2002, 01:56 AM	#5
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Cleaning rods with oilers were available for any length barrel, from 4" to carbine. They were usually associated with commercial Lugers as part of a cased set, either presentation or salesman samples. They were also issued with Dutch and Portuguese Lugers. The rod may be of brass or blued steel. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-04-2002, 10:48 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Really Nice Photographs altera6 This cleaning rod is in really good condition. Probably Portugese or commercial like Ron Wood said. I wonder if it could also be from a Finnish Luger set? Any other opinions out there... or maybe even somebody with the facts! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-30-2002, 10:44 PM	#3
Rjennings User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have a 6 inch cleaning rod that looks like that one. What is the background of this type rod, as opposed to the loop kind. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

10-04-2002, 01:16 PM	#7
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Just a point of interest. I purchased an M2 Portugese Luger rig a few years ago from a collector who said he'd owned it since it was brought into the country in the 1960's. The cleaning rod is exactly as the one shown in this thread. When I opened the "oil" can, I noted that it's about half full of grease which I think is likely original. Was the container intended to hold grease or oil? Or maybe both according to need?

10-04-2002, 03:24 PM	#8
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	The reservoir was meant to hold grease. Albert

10-04-2002, 04:03 PM	#9
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	This is my cleaning rod with oil bottle: fixed by Ed [img]smile.gif[/img] Albert, if you remember, I show you this item last year in Paris. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

10-04-2002, 04:16 PM	#10
George User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So, Is my cleaning rod the real deal or not? George

10-04-2002, 05:38 PM	#11
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by altera6: <strong>So, Is my cleaning rod the real deal or not? George</strong><hr></blockquote> It certainly appears to be original and in excellent condition besides. IMO, it's the 'real deal".

10-04-2002, 09:31 PM	#12
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	There are some nicely done fakes floating around. A key thing to look for is, on the fakes, the distinction between the blued steel oiler/greaser and the brass rod is crimped as opposed to being a threaded, nearly invisible joint. Tom A Who has an original carbine cleaning rod FS on Ebay

10-24-2002, 10:11 PM	#13
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	This is the cleaning rod/oiler that my daughter purchased for me. It is indeed of original manufacture, but not original configuration. The shaft was apparently broken off in the upper section. It is shortened, rethreaded, and soldered into the upper section. To blend the brass to the steel nipple, both were turned while assembled after solder. A gradual slight taper starts about 1/2 inch from the nipple and continues straight on the nipple to the band. The nipple is cold blued. If you look at the second photo in the first post of this thread, and reposted here, you can see the ring of solder at the juncture of the brass and steel. Overall, this is a piece of trash, but I do not have the heart to tell my daughter, so I will proudly display this gobbed together piece until my daughters have completed their degrees. Some things are more important than Lugers. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

10-24-2002, 10:41 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	A beauty! I'd display this with pride. Your daughters are FAR more important than any ole Luger and how many would think to get something like this. Display it with pride, its the thought that counts. [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-25-2002, 10:45 AM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I am very curious...I have never examined a cleaning rod like this first hand. If the tool is made of a combination of brass and steel, how is an original rod attached to the nipple? It is soldered? or crimped? or how? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-26-2002, 11:36 AM	#16
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	John, in addition too a few complete rods, I have a berrel only, no rod and no cap with dipper. The barrel or drum, what ever it is called, is female threaded to receive a male threaded rod. Hope I used the correct wording.

10-29-2002, 10:05 AM	#17
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	From your description then, would it be reasonable to presume that the solder used on the rod pictured here was a method to permanently secure the brass rod to the threaded nipple? Could this be a repair, or original methodology for assembly? Thanks... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-29-2002, 10:47 AM	#18
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	This is a repair, it is not original. There was no solder used. Hope all is well with your daughter, we pray for your family.

10-29-2002, 11:19 AM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Thanks for your speedy reply and your sentiments Howard... both are much appreciated. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-29-2002, 10:08 PM	#20
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I am sitting here looking at the cleaning rod and it looks like solder to me. Silver colored. What about the cold blue, and the machining? Was this sold to someone without telling them that this was a repair? That is quite a bit unethical, don't you think? There are two ways to interpret policeluger's post and I have taken one of them. The other reply would be: You mean that there was no solder used in the original assembly of cleaning rods? __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Switch to Linear Mode Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode