1917 DWM Luger Toggle Link Pin problem

rollin59 · 05-30-2012, 09:58 PM

I have a 1917 DWM Luger which I purchased after it had been polished and reblued. Top half is one serial number (all matching) and bottom half is a different serial. Top half and bottom half SN's do not match each other but each assembly is matching. I've fired maybe 200 rounds through it.

Problem recently arose, when firing, the toggle link pin (see photo) slides out partway and blocks the action.
I can slide it back in and continue firing, but the pin keeps popping out of place. There is actually a small nick in the edge of the "lip" on one end of the pin, just visible in photo below.

Others at the range suggested the pin was polished to reblue and is now too small to stay in the hole (this may be true because the 1917 date is barely visible.) The action shouldn't open enough to allow this to happen, but it does.

I do not know any history of the gun other than it came from the Las Vegas Gun Show. I got it from a dealer.

Anything ideas how to correct this problem?

Norme · 05-30-2012, 11:35 PM

Hi Rob, Welcome to the forum! There is nothing wrong with your gun or it's toggle pin. It is a shortcoming in the original P08 design, which first manifested itself towards the end of WWI when stronger ammunition was introduced. It was corrected on WWI Navies by switching to large flanged rear toggle pins and on WWII Mausers by extending the frame at the back by 1mm. If you switch to less potent ammo you shouldn't have a problem. Regards, Norm

rollin59 · 05-30-2012, 11:43 PM

Thanks for the advice,

Currently using new (not reload) commercial Blazer Brass 115 grain, which shouldn't be particularly hot, to my knowledge. Blazer Brass works great in my P.38s and in the Luger.

Winchester White Box 115g and UMC 115g doesn't feed well in the Luger and worse in my P38s/P1, WW2 or postwar. Seems to be slightly shorter OAL than Blazer Brass. My plastic handled Springfield XDM-9 shoots anything it gets, but has the advantage of 95 years' firearms design know how.

I do not reload 9mm and don't buy +P 9mm ammo. (I do reload other calibers.)

alanint · 05-31-2012, 12:38 AM

Another simple solution is to cover the rear pin with heavy cup grease to help hold it in via higher viscosity.

lugerholsterrepair · 05-31-2012, 10:18 AM

Rob, You might try another pin. From your photo yours does not look like it reaches the edge of the flange like it might be a few thousands smaller than it should be.. Find a DWM WW1 pin ..that could be an easy fix.

Norm and Doug are right..it's a design flaw recognized by Mauser. Mauser also had different diameter pins for what I can only guess might have been for a tighter fit.

rhuff · 05-31-2012, 03:23 PM

You might consider trying PMC 115gr FMJ ammo. My Lugers perform very well with it, and the price is very reasonable...just a thought. Tom Heller(LugerDoc on this forum) may well have the pin that you need.

CAP Black · 05-31-2012, 09:40 PM

Fixed the duplication

CAP Black · 05-31-2012, 09:41 PM

I agree that the grease idea might be a quick and temporary fix. The right pin is what is really needed.
jack
Imho

Kitkat041836 · 06-01-2012, 09:49 AM

My way of fixing this problem is easy and simple.I take some
Rubbing Alcohol on a q-tip and clean the pin and right side of
the pin hole,then I use a little Permatex medium strength
Threadlocker Blue that you can get at any auto store,and
put some on the right side of the toggle pin hole and put the pin in and let it set overnight.If you do this the pin will not
work out again.
Thanks George

Lugerdoc · 06-01-2012, 12:14 PM

Rob, I do have unnumbered NOS rear toggle axels available @$25 + $5 S&H. If your axel is chipped or over polished on the flange, that's why it's drifting out. If it in fact is too loose in the polished receiver, I do also have a few 0.05mm oversized original axels that might solve your problem, at the same price. TH

05-30-2012, 09:58 PM	#1
rollin59 User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	1917 DWM Luger Toggle Link Pin problem I have a 1917 DWM Luger which I purchased after it had been polished and reblued. Top half is one serial number (all matching) and bottom half is a different serial. Top half and bottom half SN's do not match each other but each assembly is matching. I've fired maybe 200 rounds through it. Problem recently arose, when firing, the toggle link pin (see photo) slides out partway and blocks the action. I can slide it back in and continue firing, but the pin keeps popping out of place. There is actually a small nick in the edge of the "lip" on one end of the pin, just visible in photo below. Others at the range suggested the pin was polished to reblue and is now too small to stay in the hole (this may be true because the 1917 date is barely visible.) The action shouldn't open enough to allow this to happen, but it does. I do not know any history of the gun other than it came from the Las Vegas Gun Show. I got it from a dealer. Anything ideas how to correct this problem? Attached Thumbnails __________________ 1917 DWM Luger

05-30-2012, 11:43 PM	#3
rollin59 User Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 11 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post	Thanks for the advice, Currently using new (not reload) commercial Blazer Brass 115 grain, which shouldn't be particularly hot, to my knowledge. Blazer Brass works great in my P.38s and in the Luger. Winchester White Box 115g and UMC 115g doesn't feed well in the Luger and worse in my P38s/P1, WW2 or postwar. Seems to be slightly shorter OAL than Blazer Brass. My plastic handled Springfield XDM-9 shoots anything it gets, but has the advantage of 95 years' firearms design know how. I do not reload 9mm and don't buy +P 9mm ammo. (I do reload other calibers.) __________________ 1917 DWM Luger

05-31-2012, 10:18 AM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Rob, You might try another pin. From your photo yours does not look like it reaches the edge of the flange like it might be a few thousands smaller than it should be.. Find a DWM WW1 pin ..that could be an easy fix. Norm and Doug are right..it's a design flaw recognized by Mauser. Mauser also had different diameter pins for what I can only guess might have been for a tighter fit. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

05-31-2012, 09:40 PM	#7
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 174 Times in 96 Posts	Fixed the duplication Last edited by CAP Black; 05-31-2012 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Duplicate

05-31-2012, 09:41 PM	#8
CAP Black User Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Fairmont, WV Right here in Mountaineer country and God's country Posts: 767 Thanks: 100 Thanked 174 Times in 96 Posts	Good idea on the grease. I agree that the grease idea might be a quick and temporary fix. The right pin is what is really needed. jack Imho

05-30-2012, 11:35 PM	#2
Norme Always A Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 2,417 Thanks: 226 Thanked 2,607 Times in 933 Posts	Hi Rob, Welcome to the forum! There is nothing wrong with your gun or it's toggle pin. It is a shortcoming in the original P08 design, which first manifested itself towards the end of WWI when stronger ammunition was introduced. It was corrected on WWI Navies by switching to large flanged rear toggle pins and on WWII Mausers by extending the frame at the back by 1mm. If you switch to less potent ammo you shouldn't have a problem. Regards, Norm

05-31-2012, 12:38 AM	#4
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Another simple solution is to cover the rear pin with heavy cup grease to help hold it in via higher viscosity.

05-31-2012, 03:23 PM	#6
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,305 Thanks: 2,735 Thanked 991 Times in 727 Posts	You might consider trying PMC 115gr FMJ ammo. My Lugers perform very well with it, and the price is very reasonable...just a thought. Tom Heller(LugerDoc on this forum) may well have the pin that you need.

06-01-2012, 09:49 AM	#9
Kitkat041836 RIP Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 195 Thanks: 0 Thanked 21 Times in 18 Posts	My way of fixing this problem is easy and simple.I take some Rubbing Alcohol on a q-tip and clean the pin and right side of the pin hole,then I use a little Permatex medium strength Threadlocker Blue that you can get at any auto store,and put some on the right side of the toggle pin hole and put the pin in and let it set overnight.If you do this the pin will not work out again. Thanks George

06-01-2012, 12:14 PM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Rob, I do have unnumbered NOS rear toggle axels available @$25 + $5 S&H. If your axel is chipped or over polished on the flange, that's why it's drifting out. If it in fact is too loose in the polished receiver, I do also have a few 0.05mm oversized original axels that might solve your problem, at the same price. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net