K date Front Sight <img BORDER="0" src='http://boards.rennlist.com/luger/pic.gif'>

Ted · 03-27-2001, 11:53 AM

As a point for some of the new Collector/Shooter Luger guys

Some of the K Date Lugers (Mausers made in 1934) had set back front sights. See picture! Sight is not flush with the muzzle or even close to being flush! Interesting! Wonder why this was done? Any ideas out there? Ted

http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/kdatesight.jpg

John Sabato · 03-27-2001, 12:50 PM

Since that was right after Mauser got into the Luger production business, I would think that the first bunch of Lugers required some adjustment of the tooling in order to produce acceptable manufacturing standards.

It would seem from your photo that if this is an original barrel that the crowning procedure may have required too much room to allow proper (original) shaping of the front sight base. Mauser may even have attempted to produce Luger barrel blanks before they got into the actual production of the gun and these were ultimately used in production guns even though they were not built exactly to the blueprint, they were certainly serviceable.

I can't say that I have ever seen a front sight base quite like the one in your photo. I have looked at all the pictures I have web grabbed and none looks like that. Perhaps another forum user out there has another K-date that we can compare with this photo.

Marvin? Tom? Kyrie? How about it guys?

that's my $0.02

-John

Frank · 03-27-2001, 01:06 PM

Jan Still's book on Third Reich Lugers shows two versions of the setback front sight. His subversion 2 and a Transitional Subversion between 2 and 4.

Ted · 03-27-2001, 01:32 PM

FWIW, this is a third Variation type, the K date shooter I am redoing for Bob Tracy. Nice Luger! It had been dipped blued previous and Mr Tracy wanted it to look a little more original! Thanks for your input! Would like to hear Johnny Peppers, Bill Munis, Bob Tracy's, and others input!

bill m · 03-27-2001, 02:59 PM

Hi All,

The set back front sight as shown in the picture is fairly common and is found usually in the first 3 variations. These are the original barrels. If you look at the barrels on a 1923 commercial DWM you will see that they are the exact same length as these K-date barrels -- if the barrel was cut off flush with the front sight. To make the correct military barrel length they could not cut the barrel flush with the front sight, but had to cut it a little longer. Thus the set back front sight. These had to be old stock barrels or old stock designs. The new correct length barrels had the sight block put on a little farther forward and was cut flush. Not a very good discription of what happened, but hope you get the idea.

Ted · 03-27-2001, 03:42 PM

I do indeed Bill, the 23 Commerical Barrel length was 3 & 3/4" ? so the front sight was set for that barrel length and they didnt have to cut it back that far for a 4", makes sense! Thanks for clearing this up! Ted

Patrick · 03-27-2001, 03:44 PM

They most likely didnÃ?Â´t have different size front sight blades in stock - and this was the correct distance for the blade that they had from the rear sight to shoot accurately at the required 50 metres. Patrick

03-27-2001, 11:53 AM	#1
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	K date Front Sight As a point for some of the new Collector/Shooter Luger guys Some of the K Date Lugers (Mausers made in 1934) had set back front sights. See picture! Sight is not flush with the muzzle or even close to being flush! Interesting! Wonder why this was done? Any ideas out there? Ted http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/kdatesight.jpg

03-27-2001, 12:50 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Okay Ted, here's my 'shot' at an explanation Since that was right after Mauser got into the Luger production business, I would think that the first bunch of Lugers required some adjustment of the tooling in order to produce acceptable manufacturing standards. It would seem from your photo that if this is an original barrel that the crowning procedure may have required too much room to allow proper (original) shaping of the front sight base. Mauser may even have attempted to produce Luger barrel blanks before they got into the actual production of the gun and these were ultimately used in production guns even though they were not built exactly to the blueprint, they were certainly serviceable. I can't say that I have ever seen a front sight base quite like the one in your photo. I have looked at all the pictures I have web grabbed and none looks like that. Perhaps another forum user out there has another K-date that we can compare with this photo. Marvin? Tom? Kyrie? How about it guys? that's my $0.02 -John

03-27-2001, 01:06 PM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	I don't know why, but Jan Still's book on Third Reich Lugers shows two versions of the setback front sight. His subversion 2 and a Transitional Subversion between 2 and 4.

03-27-2001, 01:32 PM	#4
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Okay Ted, here's my 'shot' at an explanation FWIW, this is a third Variation type, the K date shooter I am redoing for Bob Tracy. Nice Luger! It had been dipped blued previous and Mr Tracy wanted it to look a little more original! Thanks for your input! Would like to hear Johnny Peppers, Bill Munis, Bob Tracy's, and others input!

03-27-2001, 02:59 PM	#5
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: K date Front Sight Hi All, The set back front sight as shown in the picture is fairly common and is found usually in the first 3 variations. These are the original barrels. If you look at the barrels on a 1923 commercial DWM you will see that they are the exact same length as these K-date barrels -- if the barrel was cut off flush with the front sight. To make the correct military barrel length they could not cut the barrel flush with the front sight, but had to cut it a little longer. Thus the set back front sight. These had to be old stock barrels or old stock designs. The new correct length barrels had the sight block put on a little farther forward and was cut flush. Not a very good discription of what happened, but hope you get the idea.

03-27-2001, 03:42 PM	#6
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: K date Front Sight I do indeed Bill, the 23 Commerical Barrel length was 3 & 3/4" ? so the front sight was set for that barrel length and they didnt have to cut it back that far for a 4", makes sense! Thanks for clearing this up! Ted

03-27-2001, 03:44 PM	#7
Patrick User Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 241 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: K date Front Sight They most likely didnÃ?Â´t have different size front sight blades in stock - and this was the correct distance for the blade that they had from the rear sight to shoot accurately at the required 50 metres. Patrick