Nine mm DWM commercial for Dwight’s database

Kyrie · 03-25-2018, 03:08 PM

Nine MM, matching except for the magazine. I haven’t had the grip panels off but suspect they are not original. Also suspect it has been re-blued.

HerrKaiser · 03-25-2018, 04:19 PM

Perhaps restored, but I do not see obvious marks of a re-bluing job. Otherwise looks to be a Commercial Luger that was well/often used by previous owner(s).

lugerholsterrepair · 03-25-2018, 04:29 PM

Ditto..the grips appear to be Swiss style.

Kyrie · 03-25-2018, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HerrKaiser

Perhaps restored, but I do not see obvious marks of a re-bluing job. Otherwise looks to be a Commercial Luger that was well/often used by previous owner(s).

I really, really hope you're right. Two things lead me to suspect an old, and very professional, re-blue. The safety lever should be straw, but is blued. And some of the markings (most notably the C/N proof stamps) look a little faint.

OTOH, edges are still sharp.

Quien sabe?

Kyrie · 03-25-2018, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lugerholsterrepair

Ditto..the grips appear to be Swiss style.

Yes sir, that was my thought also.

I'm hoping to get to the range tomorrow, and shoot this Luger and the (probably) converted 1915 Arty I posted about in the 'Buying Shooter Lugers Can Be an Adventure' thread.

Range report to follow...

HerrKaiser · 03-25-2018, 04:57 PM

Yo Se (lo siento, no accent marks for English keyboards). Also that is unfortunate, at first I could not tell if the takedown lever was blued in the pictures and so i gave it the benefit of the doubt that it was not. In that case I would believe your suspicion about the re-blue to be correct. The proof stamps being faint I could attribute to a restoration job, which is different and not as damaging to collector value so long as done professionally, which it seems to be.

DavidJayUden · 03-25-2018, 05:55 PM

Not sure what difference it makes in the grand scheme of things if it is an old professional restoration or if it is original finish. Valuation probably doesn't change too dramatically.
dju

George Anderson · 03-25-2018, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Not sure what difference it makes in the grand scheme of things if it is an old professional restoration or if it is original finish. Valuation probably doesn't change too dramatically.
dju

Oh yes it does.

DonVoigt · 03-25-2018, 07:27 PM

A picture of the inside of the frame, from the top- with the receiver/barrel removed is in order.

Ron Wood · 03-25-2018, 08:08 PM

I am not so sure it has been refinished. Can't tell if those are halos on the barrel serial number or if it is residue from the white garbage that has been applied. A relatively scarce 1914 Commercial, and as George has indicated ("Oh yes it does"), if original it makes it worth more than a reblue. A better look at the safety lever is in order as I think it is the lighting and not blue.
ron

JTD · 03-25-2018, 08:29 PM

I also think you got a fine pistol there. John

DavidJayUden · 03-25-2018, 09:15 PM

I stand corrected. Twice...
dju

Kyrie · 03-26-2018, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Wood

I am not so sure it has been refinished. Can't tell if those are halos on the barrel serial number or if it is residue from the white garbage that has been applied. A relatively scarce 1914 Commercial, and as George has indicated ("Oh yes it does"), if original it makes it worth more than a reblue. A better look at the safety lever is in order as I think it is the lighting and not blue.
ron

Have not found 'halos' to be a reliable indicator of any particular state.

It's unfortunate you dislike lacquer stik. I have found it to be very useful.

The safety lever is blued, the trigger and locking block have traces of heat straw, ejector has traces of heat blue.

Kyrie · 03-26-2018, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

A picture of the inside of the frame, from the top- with the receiver/barrel removed is in order.

I'll try to take a couple of photos over the next few days. They may or may not tell us much, if it was re-rust blued. We'll see...

DonVoigt · 03-26-2018, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyrie

I'll try to take a couple of photos over the next few days. They may or may not tell us much, if it was re-rust blued. We'll see...

Depends on how careful the bluer was; one can tell with a high degree of certainty if it is original or not. If it is/was a "sloppy" job, it will jump out- a learning opportunity for others at any rate.

Ron Wood · 03-26-2018, 10:23 AM

Kyrie,
I do not dislike lacquer stick, It is great for showing up markings for "portrait" photos, but the flip side of that is it is lousy for evaluating those markings. For a detailed look, it needs to be removed.
Ron

Dwight Gruber · 03-26-2018, 11:40 AM

From what I have seen here I suspect the finish is original. When you take more photos could you include a closeup of the top of the center toggle and the witness mark?

--Dwight

Kyrie · 03-26-2018, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

A picture of the inside of the frame, from the top- with the receiver/barrel removed is in order.

Here we go...

Kyrie · 03-26-2018, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwight Gruber

From what I have seen here I suspect the finish is original. When you take more photos could you include a closeup of the top of the center toggle and the witness mark?

--Dwight

Dwight Gruber · 03-26-2018, 06:02 PM

Thanks. I wasn't specific enough, I'm looking for the retaining pin between the toggle grips, sorry. Everything looks good so far.

--Dwight

03-25-2018, 03:08 PM	#1
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Nine mm DWM commercial for Dwight’s database Nine MM, matching except for the magazine. I haven’t had the grip panels off but suspect they are not original. Also suspect it has been re-blued.

03-25-2018, 04:19 PM	#2
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 865 Thanks: 816 Thanked 879 Times in 421 Posts	Perhaps restored, but I do not see obvious marks of a re-bluing job. Otherwise looks to be a Commercial Luger that was well/often used by previous owner(s). __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

03-25-2018, 04:29 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,132 Times in 1,439 Posts	Ditto..the grips appear to be Swiss style. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-25-2018, 04:57 PM	#6
HerrKaiser User Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: South Carolina Posts: 865 Thanks: 816 Thanked 879 Times in 421 Posts	Yo Se (lo siento, no accent marks for English keyboards). Also that is unfortunate, at first I could not tell if the takedown lever was blued in the pictures and so i gave it the benefit of the doubt that it was not. In that case I would believe your suspicion about the re-blue to be correct. The proof stamps being faint I could attribute to a restoration job, which is different and not as damaging to collector value so long as done professionally, which it seems to be. __________________ -QM Looking for Mauser S/42 toggle train #22

03-25-2018, 07:27 PM	#9
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,354 Times in 2,041 Posts	A picture of the inside of the frame, from the top- with the receiver/barrel removed is in order. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-25-2018, 05:55 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Not sure what difference it makes in the grand scheme of things if it is an old professional restoration or if it is original finish. Valuation probably doesn't change too dramatically. dju

03-25-2018, 08:08 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,034 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,239 Times in 1,718 Posts	I am not so sure it has been refinished. Can't tell if those are halos on the barrel serial number or if it is residue from the white garbage that has been applied. A relatively scarce 1914 Commercial, and as George has indicated ("Oh yes it does"), if original it makes it worth more than a reblue. A better look at the safety lever is in order as I think it is the lighting and not blue. ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-25-2018, 08:29 PM	#11
JTD User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: PA Posts: 428 Thanks: 218 Thanked 410 Times in 151 Posts	I also think you got a fine pistol there. John

03-25-2018, 09:15 PM	#12
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	I stand corrected. Twice... dju

03-26-2018, 10:23 AM	#16
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,034 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,239 Times in 1,718 Posts	Kyrie, I do not dislike lacquer stick, It is great for showing up markings for "portrait" photos, but the flip side of that is it is lousy for evaluating those markings. For a detailed look, it needs to be removed. Ron __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-26-2018, 11:40 AM	#17
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	From what I have seen here I suspect the finish is original. When you take more photos could you include a closeup of the top of the center toggle and the witness mark? --Dwight

03-26-2018, 06:02 PM	#20
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Thanks. I wasn't specific enough, I'm looking for the retaining pin between the toggle grips, sorry. Everything looks good so far. --Dwight