To Krieghoff or not to Krieghoff, this is the question

Sergio Natali · 03-19-2014, 12:49 PM

Maybe I've got too many itches, and my wish list is getting longer and longer, but I've just seen this Krieghoff for sale; can't produce any more photos for now, next Saturday they'll let me know its selling price, it's all matching except the firing pin, .code "S" 3rd series, stamped "H K KRIEGHOFF SUHL" , 4 figure s/n, original brown plastic grips, good barrel, BUT being in Italy it hass been rechambereed 9x21 IMI :-(

I'll wait until Saturday then I'll take a decision.

spartacus38 · 03-19-2014, 01:05 PM

Unnumbered firing pin is correct.Is mag matching?
Bob

alanint · 03-19-2014, 01:10 PM

That is awfully sloppy machinework on the left frame ear above the safety for a Kreighoff.

John Sabato · 03-19-2014, 01:12 PM

Sergio, I am by no means a Krieghoff expert...

Hopefully John D. will chime in here.

My observations follow and I encourage anyone who knows more about KH guns to comment:

The gun is not numbered in the military style? so is it commercial?

I am not accustomed to seeing the round milling marks being so prominent in the frame "ear" surrounding the safety lever on a Krieghoff. Perhaps this gun is POST-WAR assembled from parts and therefore not up to standard KH quality control?

There Appears to be bluing over some of the pitting which would indicate that the gun may have been refinished, perhaps after the re-chambering operation?

I open the floor for comments and other's observations!

lugerholsterrepair · 03-19-2014, 01:29 PM

Price is the main consideration here..If you can accept the possible re finnish and the re chambering suits you then having a Krieghoff like this comes down to what you are willing to part with. $2000 USD would be about tops IMO.

Sergio Natali · 03-19-2014, 02:50 PM

I wrote all I knew for the moment.
I'll be a lot more precise when I'll go to see it on Saturday morning; price IS important of course, but generally I tend to prefer to pay "the right amount" only for something really worth it, otherwise I prefer no to bother.

I wish to thank all of you for now.

Sergio

stressed · 03-19-2014, 08:49 PM

Are those grips Kreighoff specific?

nukem556 · 03-19-2014, 09:33 PM

Definite refinish.........

Sergio Natali · 03-20-2014, 02:41 AM

Yes they should be Krighoff ones, in any case I'll have to hold it in my hands and examine it first to have a better idea of that gun.

alanint · 03-20-2014, 03:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Are those grips Kreighoff specific?

No. There is a documented small run of Mausers that also were issued with Brown, plastic grips.

Sergio Natali · 03-20-2014, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanint

No. There is a documented small run of Mausers that also were issued with Brown, plastic grips.

I don't know about that, the seller told me expressely about "original brown plastic grips", but as I said I'm looking forward to see itl

cirelaw · 03-20-2014, 08:33 AM

1937 #7932 ~~Eric

John Sabato · 03-20-2014, 09:28 AM

Thanks for your photos Eric.

Two quick differences noted...

Not the same grips... different style. Eric's grips have a smooth border completely surrounding the checkering, and the pistol in question has grips that "appear" to have no top border...

Notice also that the milling marks in the safety lever recess are much more difficult to see than the prominent circles on the gun that is for sale...

DavidJayUden · 03-20-2014, 09:35 AM

Interesting to compare the lines around the "hump" on the side plates. MUCH clearer/sharper on the 1937 gun.
dju

Ben M. · 03-20-2014, 10:31 AM

ritzmann grips came first. then the mauserlike brown grips.

cirelaw · 03-20-2014, 11:14 AM

Never seen another this good!

Sergio Natali · 03-21-2014, 02:38 AM

I hope to receive some more "imput/opinions" by some of our Krieghoff Luger expert of the Forum before tomorrow...

stressed · 03-21-2014, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben M.

ritzmann grips came first. then the mauserlike brown grips.

Can you explain this in better detail? Which is which? Krieghoffs came with these plastic brown grips after certain year? "Ritzmann" grips like luger.parabellum's luger?

Sergio Natali · 03-21-2014, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressed

Can you explain this in better detail? Which is which? Krieghoffs came with these plastic brown grips after certain year? "Ritzmann" grips like luger.parabellum's luger?

As far as I know (not that much compared to other forum's mates) in 1938 there were the brown Ritzmann and from 1939 black Ritzmann, but I saw "S" code with wood grips (1st and 2nd series).

cirelaw · 03-21-2014, 09:46 AM

There is a fine article on the different grip styles ~~Eric

03-19-2014, 12:49 PM	#1
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	To Krieghoff or not to Krieghoff, this is the question Maybe I've got too many itches, and my wish list is getting longer and longer, but I've just seen this Krieghoff for sale; can't produce any more photos for now, next Saturday they'll let me know its selling price, it's all matching except the firing pin, .code "S" 3rd series, stamped "H K KRIEGHOFF SUHL" , 4 figure s/n, original brown plastic grips, good barrel, BUT being in Italy it hass been rechambereed 9x21 IMI :-( I'll wait until Saturday then I'll take a decision. Attached Thumbnails __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-19-2014, 01:12 PM	#4
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Sergio, I am by no means a Krieghoff expert... Hopefully John D. will chime in here. My observations follow and I encourage anyone who knows more about KH guns to comment: The gun is not numbered in the military style? so is it commercial? I am not accustomed to seeing the round milling marks being so prominent in the frame "ear" surrounding the safety lever on a Krieghoff. Perhaps this gun is POST-WAR assembled from parts and therefore not up to standard KH quality control? There Appears to be bluing over some of the pitting which would indicate that the gun may have been refinished, perhaps after the re-chambering operation? I open the floor for comments and other's observations! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-19-2014, 01:29 PM	#5
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Price is the main consideration here..If you can accept the possible re finnish and the re chambering suits you then having a Krieghoff like this comes down to what you are willing to part with. $2000 USD would be about tops IMO. __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-19-2014, 02:50 PM	#6
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I wrote all I knew for the moment. I'll be a lot more precise when I'll go to see it on Saturday morning; price IS important of course, but generally I tend to prefer to pay "the right amount" only for something really worth it, otherwise I prefer no to bother. I wish to thank all of you for now. Sergio __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-20-2014, 02:41 AM	#9
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Yes they should be Krighoff ones, in any case I'll have to hold it in my hands and examine it first to have a better idea of that gun. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-19-2014, 01:05 PM	#2
spartacus38 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South Lake Tahoe,CA. Posts: 695 Thanks: 0 Thanked 70 Times in 56 Posts	Unnumbered firing pin is correct.Is mag matching? Bob

03-19-2014, 01:10 PM	#3
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	That is awfully sloppy machinework on the left frame ear above the safety for a Kreighoff.

03-19-2014, 08:49 PM	#7
stressed User Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 197 Thanks: 41 Thanked 43 Times in 30 Posts	Are those grips Kreighoff specific?

03-19-2014, 09:33 PM	#8
nukem556 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Irmo, SC Posts: 625 Thanks: 35 Thanked 168 Times in 107 Posts	Definite refinish.........

03-20-2014, 08:33 AM	#12
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	A 1937 For Comparison~ 1937 #7932 ~~Eric Attached Thumbnails

03-20-2014, 09:28 AM	#13
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,155 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Thanks for your photos Eric. Two quick differences noted... Not the same grips... different style. Eric's grips have a smooth border completely surrounding the checkering, and the pistol in question has grips that "appear" to have no top border... Notice also that the milling marks in the safety lever recess are much more difficult to see than the prominent circles on the gun that is for sale... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-20-2014, 09:35 AM	#14
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Interesting to compare the lines around the "hump" on the side plates. MUCH clearer/sharper on the 1937 gun. dju

03-20-2014, 10:31 AM	#15
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 498 Thanks: 96 Thanked 145 Times in 90 Posts	ritzmann grips came first. then the mauserlike brown grips.

03-20-2014, 11:14 AM	#16
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	George Found Me This Beautiful Holster~ Never seen another this good! Attached Thumbnails

03-21-2014, 02:38 AM	#17
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I hope to receive some more "imput/opinions" by some of our Krieghoff Luger expert of the Forum before tomorrow... __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-21-2014, 09:46 AM	#20
cirelaw Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PORT ST LUCIE, FLORIDA Posts: 12,216 Thanks: 6,209 Thanked 4,138 Times in 2,176 Posts	Randall Gibson To The Rescue~ There is a fine article on the different grip styles ~~Eric Attached Thumbnails